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Author Topic:   Change one Article of the Constitution -- Which one?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 5 of 10 (800873)
03-01-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by RAZD
03-01-2017 8:29 AM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
So that amendments going through state legislatures would have the same bar to meet as the ones going through the federal congress. The current 3/4ths seems onerously high.
If possible, could you express "seems onerously high" in more concrete terms? I believe the ERA could have been ratified under a lower standard, but can you come up with any other positive examples?
In my view, folks are more inclined to do ill rather than good when amending the constitution. For example, based on recent discussion here, there is a lot of hostility to a number of the provisions of the first and fourteenth amendments among certain groups of folks. I don't want the current state legislatures anywhere near being able to tinker with those things.
Maybe I'm paranoid, but I don't trust even well-meaning folks with the power to "Animal Farm" the constitution. The current bargain is not perfect, but its proven flexible enough without amendment to handle most changes although there are some important notable exceptions.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by RAZD, posted 03-01-2017 8:29 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 03-01-2017 3:10 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 8 of 10 (800894)
03-01-2017 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by RAZD
03-01-2017 3:10 PM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
but because lobbyists for big corporation buy off politicians and block passage (NRA for instance), so there should be a way for people to work around that.
Do you imagine that lobbyists would be kept away from efforts to amend the constitution while still allowing the people to have access? I don't.
Gun control measures like Gabby Giffords & husband Mark Kelly propose with their Americans for Responsible Solutions campaign.
Do you believe that 2/3 of the legislatures would be in favor of modifying the constitution in a way that might help with gun control measures? How do you keep that process from being corrupted?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by RAZD, posted 03-01-2017 3:10 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 03-03-2017 3:59 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 10 of 10 (801668)
03-08-2017 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by RAZD
03-03-2017 3:59 PM


Re: Article 5 - Amendment
No I don't, that's why ballot initiatives become important.
You didn't propose anything like that. Maybe nationwide people are to be trusted, but I could point to any number of state constitutional provisions that I think are fubar.
I kinda like the idea of a division between constitutional provisions which are extremely difficult to change and statutory ones that can be rewritten or repealed at the popular whim.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by RAZD, posted 03-03-2017 3:59 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

  
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