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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
NoNukes Inactive Member |
Technically true, but misleading. The Chinese Exclusion Act was repealed in 1943 and the Immigration and Nationality Act Amendments of 1965 did away with national origin quotas. Not misleading at all. There is clearly an enabling statute that gives the president the power to do ban anyone from any country from entering the US. The question is whether the Trump's EO is a constitutional application of that statute. The reasons for not allowing Chinese folks to enter were about as odious as they come, which supports the conclusion that given an enabling statute, there is no Constitutional issue.
The Executive does not have the authority to override the Legislature. I have no idea what legislative act you think is in the way. I'm certainly not talking about the Chinese Exclusion Act. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
I hope our new AG is enough up on Constitutional law to know where it was affirmed that even a religion has no rights if it advocates overthrowing the government. I suspect his grasp of the law exceeds yours by quite a bit. For example, I am sure that the AG understands that it is people who have rights and not their religion, although it might be a good idea to give him a reminder that "people" includes folks of color. Here is a Justice Scalia quote for you with emphasis added by me:
quote: I suppose Justice Scalia was just mouthing words from his globalist overseers. AmIrite? The question of whether the constitution covers Islam as a religious belief is not one to be taken seriously. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
So give them due process,k what does that have to do with the right to discriminate against them? Duh. But as I understand it from previous discussions of this point, that promise of due process is only for those already in the country.* We don't owe outside foreigners anything except of course bgasic human rights.
abe: * Already in the country, that is, "By favor" in Madison's words, meaning not illegally. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member
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So give them due process,k what does that have to do with the right to discriminate against them? This question is beyond idiotic. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1470 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
No, you are just logic-challenged as usual.
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ringo Member (Idle past 438 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
The Leftist Lock key on your keyboard seems to be stuck. Is it possible for you to write a post without some inane reference to "leftists"?
Yes, because it doesn't matter what "legal" justification anyone can make up for it, such a justification can only be Leftist revisionism....
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
No, you are just logic-challenged as usual. Do you know what Due Process means? Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
NoNukes responds to me:
quote: I don't deny that. But that isn't what we were talking about. It was specifically this statement:
the Supreme Court precedent is that laws such as the Chinese Exclusion Act are constitutional. That is true, but misleading because that Act no longer exists. The law you're talking about is something completely different. This is part of the problem with Trump's original EO: It seemed to think that the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 hadn't been altered by the Act of 1965. And it's precisely the same fight then in 1952 that we have today. Truman vetoed the Act, saying:
Today, we are "protecting" ourselves as we were in 1924, against being flooded by immigrants from Eastern Europe. This is fantastic. ... We do not need to be protected against immigrants from these countries—on the contrary we want to stretch out a helping hand, to save those who have managed to flee into Western Europe, to succor those who are brave enough to escape from barbarism, to welcome and restore them against the day when their countries will, as we hope, be free again....These are only a few examples of the absurdity, the cruelty of carrying over into this year of 1952 the isolationist limitations of our 1924 law. In no other realm of our national life are we so hampered and stultified by the dead hand of the past, as we are in this field of immigration. And remember, this was right after WWII and the Holocaust. We still couldn't understand the unmitigated evil of denying people freedom simply because we were scared. But, Congress overrode the veto. So, back to my point: It may be that the current Supreme Court, should it be presented with something like a "Muslim Exclusion Act" would fall back on precedent set by the Chae Chan Ping v. United States (1889) case where they said:
the power of exclusion of foreigners [is] an incident of sovereignty belonging to the government of the United States as a part of those sovereign powers delegated by the constitution. I personally think the religious aspects of this particular scenario would give them pause but in the end, that is irrelevant. The law as it currently stands states that:
No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of nationality. So even if it is constitutional to ban Muslims, the Executive doesn't have the power to do so because the law prohibits him from doing so. In order to do that, the Immigration and Nationality Act would need to be amended. As I said: The Executive does not have the power to override the Legislature. That's precisely the same problem we had with Iran/Contra: The President did something that the law expressly forbade him doing.
quote: Again, irrelevant. No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of nationality. That's what the law is. And despite what Nixon said, if the President does it, it's still illegal.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Faith writes:
quote: Nope. Now, I had already asked you nicely to please not play dumb and pretend that the due process protections of the US Constitution apply to people outside the US dealing with non-US governments. And yet, here you are doing precisely that. The promise of due process (mentioned in Amendments 5 and 14) is a right for all "persons." You will note that it does not restrict it to mere "citizens." What this means is that any person that has any dealing such that they are subject to US jurisdiction...like...oh...I don't know...immigration...then they are entitled to due process. We have a process for immigration. That process, then, requires the application of due process to those seeking to immigrate. And, of course, those seeking to immigrate would necessarily be non-citizens (since citizens don't "immigrate" to their own country). The law as it is right now states:
No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of nationality. Thus, if you are immigrating to the US and find that you are being discriminated against due to your nationality, you have a claim regarding due process. It's like you don't understand what "due process" means.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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nwr Member Posts: 6410 From: Geneva, Illinois Joined: Member Rating: 5.3
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I hope our new AG is enough up on Constitutional law to know where it was affirmed that even a religion has no rights if it advocates overthrowing the government.
I sure hope the AG makes that argument. Because it is so utterly absurd, that it would undermine any actual argument that he might have.Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Rrhain writes: The law as it currently stands states that: No person shall receive any preference or priority or be discriminated against in the issuance of an immigrant visa because of nationality What you have quoted is not the entirety of the law. You do not mention the much-discussed 8 U.S. Code 1182(f) which allows the president to determine that certain classes of aliens may be denied entry based on the president's own findings.
quote: Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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jar Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
An article in yesterdays USA Today says that Muhammad Ali Jr was again stopped and questioned by TSA before being allowed to board a plane from DC back to FT Lauderdale after testifying before Congress where he said on Thursday that the government needs to help end racial and religious profiling.
source When you add that behavior to the purge of all attorneys appointed under the Obama Administration a frightening reminder of the Saturday Night Massacre designed to eliminate any possible opposition as well as again pointing out how petty, childish and immature Trump and all of his sycophants and fellow travelers are. Edited by jar, : appalin spallin appoint --> appointed
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Modulous Member Posts: 7801 From: Manchester, UK Joined: |
You do not mention the much-discussed 8 U.S. Code 1182(f) Rrhain did, in fairness say:
quote: 1182(f) was enacted as part of the 1952 act.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
1182(f) was enacted as part of the 1952 act. Thanks. Well noted. In any event, this provision has been used by presidents since 1965, including a usage by Jimmy Carter to revoke all Iranian visas back in 1980. Apparently, the 1965 act did not remove this particular presidential power. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Dredge Member (Idle past 99 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Islam is a dangerous, violently intolerant, totalitarian cult. But to ban the import of this cult is a sin against equality, the core doctrine of the religion of cultural Marxism. Madness, but popular for some strange reason.
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