Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,819 Year: 3,076/9,624 Month: 921/1,588 Week: 104/223 Day: 2/13 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Questions based on a plain and simple reading of the US Constitution
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 95 of 169 (800780)
02-27-2017 11:11 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by marc9000
02-27-2017 10:22 PM


They were part of the original founding of the U.S. Why are only the first 10 called the Bill of Rights? Why aren't all of them to this day called that? There is a distinction between the first 10 and the rest.
So you dont believe in the whole Constitution. Just parts you lke. That is seditious talk.
Maybe you should learn some basic history. There were more amendments proposed. Only ten were ratified by the states. The 27th amendment was included with the original 10 but was only affirmed in 1992.
Oh yeah and the scholars that support your seditious reasoning?
United States Bill of Rights - Wikipedia
Now show me the free healthcare. Unemployment benefits are not free, they are paid for by a tax on companies, which in turn is a tax on workers because it gives employers less money to pay workers. Are you saying there should be no unemployment benefit? We should let those that lose a job due to no fault of their own should live in the streets and starve?
Show me this free college tuition. I do think college should be part of basic education. Do you think K-12 education is free liberal stuff?
Countless routine living expenses that Democrats constantly clamor for the government to provide for them.
Examples?
Non documented workers pay MORE taxes than legal ones?
Now I didn't say that did I. How about you actually argue against the argument I am making, not a strawman you built.
The research has been done. There are more taxes than just federal income tax. You conservs like to forget that when you have a weak argument.
https://www.usnews.com/...d-immigrants-pay-billions-in-taxes

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by marc9000, posted 02-27-2017 10:22 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 101 of 169 (800810)
02-28-2017 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 93 by marc9000
02-27-2017 10:13 PM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
Please expand on your Rome analogy. I don't understand the parallels you are trying to draw. I am not sure if that is caused because how you are trying to express them or the total, utter lack of historical knowledge you seem to possess.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by marc9000, posted 02-27-2017 10:13 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 105 of 169 (801684)
03-08-2017 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 93 by marc9000
02-27-2017 10:13 PM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
So are you running away from the whole Roman argument?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 93 by marc9000, posted 02-27-2017 10:13 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 10:24 AM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 108 of 169 (801725)
03-09-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by marc9000
03-09-2017 10:24 AM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
There you go referencing the Roman Empire again, but not actually making an argument. Just saying Roman Empire doesn't make an argument. Please show how liberals today somehow equate with the end of the Roman Empire.
Hint
The Roman Empire did not have some sort of precipitous collapse.
But I am very interested in your fevered imaginations about what happened to the Roman Empire.
If you are interested I can point you to some resources to learn about the Roman Empire. Basic stuff you should be able to understand.
First step.
Do some research about the person my screen name is based on. That alone should give you the information to rethink your idea that there was some sort of a fall of the Roman Empire because of
marckymarc writes:
the deterioration of morals, ethics and values
ABE
Look up lead poisoning in Rome while your at it.
Edited by Theodoric, : Added stuff

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 10:24 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 8:00 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 110 of 169 (801822)
03-09-2017 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by LamarkNewAge
03-09-2017 11:55 AM


Re: Roman Empire
You also do not have a very good grasp on the history of the Roman Empire. What you state is not true.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-09-2017 11:55 AM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by NoNukes, posted 03-09-2017 7:24 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 112 by Rrhain, posted 03-09-2017 7:44 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 118 of 169 (801831)
03-09-2017 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by marc9000
03-09-2017 8:00 PM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
Romulus Augustulus was NOT deposed in 476?
Please show where I said such a thing.
These events were toward the end of a long slow process. The empire a this time was a shadow of its former self. Your comments do not at all show that there was a precipitous collapse, if there was show what it was. The empire in a sense actually survived all of this turmoil.
Do you even know who Theodoric the Great is? Have you heard of the Eastern Empire? Do you know anything about Romulus Augustulus other than it is a name you read? Tell me all about the wonderful empire he was emperor of in 476.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 8:00 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 9:39 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 123 of 169 (801836)
03-09-2017 11:02 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by marc9000
03-09-2017 9:39 PM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
So nothing like Rome.
Thanks for clarifying. Maybe you should stop using that comparison.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by marc9000, posted 03-09-2017 9:39 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by marc9000, posted 03-10-2017 8:14 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 132 of 169 (802013)
03-11-2017 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by marc9000
03-10-2017 10:00 PM


Re: Roman Empire
I asked you repeatedly to back up your arguments with evidence and all you have done is attack me. If you can support your arguments with actual facts and analysis then do it. If not stop the whole Roman comparison. Anyone can make a claim that the US is a modern collapsing comparison to Rome but all you have presented is facile assertions. Most of which seem to be a gross misunderstanding of the actual end of the Roman Empire.
If you want to actually proceed down this road, your first requirement is to define what you believe constitutes the end of the empire. Once you do that we can go from there.
I have never claimed to know more about the Roman empire than you. To do so would be silly. I know nothing about your academic background and you know nothing about mine. Also, academic credentials are not the only source of expertise. Extensive subject matter knowledge can be achieved through personal research and reading. I would have more respect for someone that can show subject matter expertise rather than a person with a PhD in an unrelated subject. That being said I can point to a number of books on the subject. There are a few general historical surveys that are quite good and also a few good fairly technical looks at the subject. Most should be available through a public library system or online.
I will let your arguments and analysis rest on their own(laurels?).

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by marc9000, posted 03-10-2017 10:00 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 9:02 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 133 of 169 (802014)
03-11-2017 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by marc9000
03-10-2017 10:00 PM


Re: Roman Empire
Well as you can see, I "piled up" a few comparisons of what happened in Rome versus what could happen in the U.S. today, (message 120) and he couldn't see any reference to the Roman government at all, even the word "ROMAN" actually appeared in what I wrote.
Are you actually claiming you have no idea what sarcasm is? Also, please stop misrepresenting what I post. It destroys your argument and makes you look petty and foolish.
I never said I could not see any reference to the Roman government at all.
me writes:
So nothing like Rome.
I was showing that your post gave us nothing to show that the USA is like the Roman empire. Your need to build a strawman and misrepresent my argument shows you are a dishonest debater and that you have no confidence in the merits of your own argument.
If you want to have an honest debate I will gladly take up the challenge, with facts, data and analysis. If you want to continue down the road of dishonesty, than good day sir.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by marc9000, posted 03-10-2017 10:00 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 9:15 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 134 of 169 (802016)
03-11-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by marc9000
03-10-2017 8:14 PM


Re: there are no "illegal" people
Earlier you intimated that barabarian invasions were responsible for the the fall(hmm the USA has not been invaded), now it is the number of bureaucrats?
Your link does not provide original source. I will try to find original source. Numbers seem a bit off, but not sure. Context means everything.
ABE
300 CE does not put things near the end of the empire.
Edited by Theodoric, : Thought

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by marc9000, posted 03-10-2017 8:14 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 9:54 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 141 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 10:03 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 140 of 169 (802070)
03-11-2017 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by marc9000
03-11-2017 9:15 PM


Re: Roman Empire
I want an honest debate with an honest debater. I will look elsewhere.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 9:15 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 10:04 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 143 of 169 (802074)
03-11-2017 10:12 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by marc9000
03-11-2017 10:03 PM


the gallop continues
So your reason for the fall of the Roman Empire and it's comparison to the USA is a gish gallop. Why am I not surprised?
Edited by Theodoric, : New sub
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by marc9000, posted 03-11-2017 10:03 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 154 of 169 (802105)
03-12-2017 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 144 by LamarkNewAge
03-11-2017 11:28 PM


Re: For the record I find this Roman QUOTE debate END QUOTE to be an exercise in ignoranc
Another dishonest debater? I have not responded to Jar in this thread. My whole purpose of continuing this Roman subthread is to get markymarc to show how Rome is relevant to the topic as yet he has not. He just continues to spout random reasons for the fall of Rome. Most just rehashes from various apologists. I do not know if it is off topic, because of yet I have not seen the purpose of the argument. He is just spouting a gish gallop with no supporting analysis. I guess at this time we can assume it is off topic as he refuses to support what he asserts.
As for you I made one comment to you. All I said was that your understanding of the Roman Empire was flawed. There was no attack. That you portray my post as an attack speaks to your honesty as a debater and poster on this site. I do notice you posted nothing to support your assertions or to counter my claims.
Good day, Sir.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by LamarkNewAge, posted 03-11-2017 11:28 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by marc9000, posted 03-12-2017 12:29 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 156 of 169 (802131)
03-12-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by marc9000
03-12-2017 12:29 PM


Re: For the record I find this Roman QUOTE debate END QUOTE to be an exercise in ignoranc
So your rants actually are off topic. Thanks for clarifying.
Edited by Theodoric, : No reason given.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by marc9000, posted 03-12-2017 12:29 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by marc9000, posted 03-12-2017 12:46 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 160 of 169 (802137)
03-12-2017 1:44 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by marc9000
03-12-2017 12:46 PM


Re: For the record I find this Roman QUOTE debate END QUOTE to be an exercise in ignoranc
Very comparable to the mistakes made in the Roman Empire
Alas, you refuse to show how they are comparable or that they are even relevant. Instead you present a hodgepodge of reasons why the Roman empire may have failed without any analysis of how they pertain to the USA.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.
If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by marc9000, posted 03-12-2017 12:46 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024