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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 241 of 1484 (802481)
03-16-2017 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
03-16-2017 4:17 PM


Re: FYI
The witches could succeed. I guess you'll cheer when that happens.
I will cheer when things like witchcraft, satan, rapture, demons, TrueChristianTM, christianity, religion and irrational anti-science hogwash all leave their places of undue influence over the collective human conscience. I will cheer when you and your brethren lose their obsession trying to dictate who everyone else is allowed to love. I will cheer when our chosen leaders and the people themselves abandon fairy tales and evil religious myth and rule their hearts, minds and actions with rational intellect, evidence-based fact and a realization that all people, Faith, all people are entitled to live in this short life with dignity and honor.
I will cheer the death of the obsessed irrational thought.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 03-16-2017 4:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 03-16-2017 10:37 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 242 of 1484 (802483)
03-16-2017 10:37 PM
Reply to: Message 241 by AZPaul3
03-16-2017 9:14 PM


Re: FYI
I will cheer when you and your brethren lose their obsession trying to dictate who everyone else is allowed to love.
Of course this thread isn't about Christians dictating anything, it's about a law dictating to Christians, forcing us by law to accept something that is against our Christian conscience, forcing us to refuse to obey it and therefore be punished.
But of course I also have to remind you that we're talking about what God commands, not Christians, so your whole understanding of these things is wrong.
Most people already share your views of a rational utopian world. I did too up until my mid-forties. Turns out it's false. Sounds good I guess, but it's false.
I feel sorry for gays, I really do. They didn't ask for their situation and all they want is the right to live as they choose. Seems simple, but things are a lot more complicated than that and what you are asking for would hurt them, not help them. I'm sure you think if you can shut us up everything will be fine.
I've never fully believed in the "pre-tribulation Rapture" but find myself hoping against hope it's going to happen soon. Then maybe you could see if things are really fine or not. I don't want anybody, even you, to go through "the tribulation," but I have a feeling it's the only way some people have a chance of being saved. You, lots of others here, lots of gay people, my own family.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 241 by AZPaul3, posted 03-16-2017 9:14 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 246 by PaulK, posted 03-17-2017 1:46 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 247 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2017 5:06 AM Faith has replied
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 03-17-2017 11:51 AM Faith has replied

  
Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3941
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001
Member Rating: 10.0


(5)
Message 243 of 1484 (802485)
03-16-2017 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
03-16-2017 8:57 AM


(At least some) wedding cakes - Monuments of excess
Being a cynical life long never married, why would any sane person want to spend a bunch of money on such a thing?
Think of the pizza and beer you could get for the same price!
And why does a wedding need a professional photographer? Most everyone is armed with smart phones that can capture the event just fine.
Guess it's a potlatch sort of thing.
Moose

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Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 244 of 1484 (802487)
03-17-2017 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Faith
03-16-2017 10:37 PM


You brought up eschatology Faith.
Perhaps you should start a thread about homosexual acts and how you feel it relates to eschatology Faith. I am interested in your view with regards to the tiny book of Jude which quotes the gigantically important Book of Enoch which has fallen angels as an end times issue PLUS a reference to Sodom and Gomorrah. I feel the Sodom issue relates to angels and sex but is the possible homosexual angle the reason for your post?

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 Message 242 by Faith, posted 03-16-2017 10:37 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(2)
Message 245 of 1484 (802488)
03-17-2017 12:36 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by Faith
03-16-2017 4:17 PM


Re: FYI
Have you noticed the active witchcraft out there? The plans to bring down Trump by witchcraft? I suppose you think it's all a big joke?
Of course. Question is, why don't you? Don't you think God is omnipotent? Don't you think that Satan can't harm a hair of Trump's head unless God permits it --- no, commands it? Don't you agree with Calvin when he says:
* "God bends all the reprobate, and even Satan himself, at his will."
* "Satan himself performs his part, just as he is impelled, and succeeds only in so far as he is permitted."
* "Satan and all the wicked are so under the hand and authority of God, that he directs their malice to whatever end he pleases, and employs their iniquities to execute his Judgments."
* "The devil, and the whole train of the ungodly, are, in all directions, held in by the hand of God as with a bridle, so that they can neither conceive any mischief, nor plan what they have conceived, nor how much soever they may have planned, move a single finger to perpetrate, unless in so far as he permits, nay, unless in so far as he commands."
So Trump has nothing to worry about ... unless of course God remembers that pride, greed, covetousness, anger, theft, bearing false witness and adultery are meant to be sins.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by Faith, posted 03-16-2017 4:17 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 8:43 AM Dr Adequate has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 246 of 1484 (802489)
03-17-2017 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Faith
03-16-2017 10:37 PM


Re: FYI
quote:
Of course this thread isn't about Christians dictating anything, it's about a law dictating to Christians, forcing us by law to accept something that is against our Christian conscience, forcing us to refuse to obey it and therefore be punished.
Since you can't even manage to work out which law you are objecting to it seems rather more likely to me that a lot of the upset comes precisely from a failure to dictate to the government.
"Christians" have spewed a lot of lies and hate to try to prevent gays getting rights and it is rather hard to believe that the anger over the SCOTUS decision has nothing to do with the fact that it marked the failure of those efforts.
It is a fact that the SCOTUS decision in itself did not provide grounds for any prosecutions - all of them are based in State anti-discrimination laws. It is a fact that the prosecutions could have occurred even without the SCOTUS decision. So why blame the SCOTUS decision rather than the State laws ? Why even think that the prosecutions could happen anywhere when there are States where gays are not legally protected from this sort of discrimination?

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 247 of 1484 (802490)
03-17-2017 5:06 AM
Reply to: Message 242 by Faith
03-16-2017 10:37 PM


Re: FYI
Of course this thread isn't about Christians dictating anything, it's about a law dictating to Christians, forcing us by law to accept something that is against our Christian conscience, forcing us to refuse to obey it and therefore be punished.
That’s just the thing, M’lady. Your Christian conscience is borne of hate, ill will and malice toward fellow human beings. You're entitled to preach that in your church but, its continued open expression in the marketplace is an abomination to secular society.
I understand that those words secular society are what chafe the souls of you and your TrueChristianTM fellows. Your open actions of hate and oppression, to humiliate and degrade those who are different, are seen by you as some kind of god-given right to purify the people and sanctify what should be a christian society.
You believe that stopping your hateful oppression of others is an oppression of your Christianity. Such is the twisted mind of the TrueChristianTM.
Well, get used to it, Luv. Enlightenment 2.0 is upon us and there will be much more of this in the decades to come.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 242 by Faith, posted 03-16-2017 10:37 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 248 of 1484 (802492)
03-17-2017 6:32 AM
Reply to: Message 243 by Minnemooseus
03-16-2017 10:53 PM


Re: (At least some) wedding cakes - Monuments of excess
Minnemouseus writes:
Being a cynical life long never married, why would any sane person want to spend a bunch of money on such a thing?
I don't really know, but my wife of around 30 years did insist on a beautiful wedding cake when we got married. Not as extravagant as that one on the photo's photographed in some palace, but the one we got was very, very expensive in those days. I thought she was insane, but did it for wedding bliss and didn't want to spoil her day. Maybe one of the secrets of a long and happy marriage is an expensive wedding cake?
But, I agree with you, paying lots of money for a wedding cake is ridiculous. My wife disagrees. Yet, she is very, very sane. Maybe all the trappings involved in a wedding are more important to females than to males? In my case the wedding was special, but not really that special. To her it meant a lot. Maybe some men do attach just as much importance to the meaning of a wedding day as my wife did?
Each person thinks differently, I guess.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 249 of 1484 (802496)
03-17-2017 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 245 by Dr Adequate
03-17-2017 12:36 AM


witchery
Have you noticed the active witchcraft out there? The plans to bring down Trump by witchcraft? I suppose you think it's all a big joke?
Of course. Question is, why don't you? Don't you think God is omnipotent? Don't you think that Satan can't harm a hair of Trump's head unless God permits it --- no, commands it?
Oh but I do. The thing is I don't know God's will in this case. I was amazed that He allowed us any reprieve at all from the political horrors of the last few decades and particularly the last eight years, all the crooks and liars out to destroy the country. I thought we were going to get an escalation of same with HC. I figured we deserved it, more of God's judgment. So I was amazed and relieved along with most conservatives that we got the conservative guy who loves America and wants to save us from all that.
At the same time I knew we still had to be under God's judgment unless something drastic changed. I've been waiting to see how far Trump can go with his plans, or if he'll be destroyed by the evil powers that have been on his case since he was elected, illegally, against all American principles and traditions.
It's still not completely clear, but I'm not at all surprised to hear there are witches -- in Hollywood and elsewhere -- dispatching their demon friends to do him in.
Sure I agree with Calvin, but it's not so much about Trump's sins as the nation's sins -- and besides, the idea is screamingly ridiculous that Trump is even a tenth the sinner Hillary is --, but prayer is also part of God's plan, and the outcome is never known in advance.
A temporary reprieve may be all that fits into the spiritual economy of the moment and we'll be going back to the full-blown horror show -- or maybe it will drag on a long time with the current horror show. Things are horrific enough anyway with the relentless arrogant disruptiveness of the Left. Time will tell of course.
But this is of course off topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 245 by Dr Adequate, posted 03-17-2017 12:36 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 250 of 1484 (802497)
03-17-2017 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Faith
03-17-2017 8:43 AM


Re: witchery
Faith writes:
It's still not completely clear, but I'm not at all surprised to hear there are witches -- in Hollywood and elsewhere -- dispatching their demon friends to do him in.
That has got to be one of the funniest things you've posted ever.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 251 of 1484 (802498)
03-17-2017 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by jar
03-17-2017 8:51 AM


Re: witchery
Jar writes:
That has got to be one of the funniest things you've posted ever.
Mad as a box of frogs. Sheesh......

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 252 of 1484 (802499)
03-17-2017 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by AZPaul3
03-17-2017 5:06 AM


Hate hate hate us, AZ
Of course this thread isn't about Christians dictating anything, it's about a law dictating to Christians, forcing us by law to accept something that is against our Christian conscience, forcing us to refuse to obey it and therefore be punished.
That’s just the thing, M’lady. Your Christian conscience is borne of hate, ill will and malice toward fellow human beings.
That's false and mean. The Christian conscience that the business people have acted on against the law legalizing same-sex marriage is totally born of obedience to God. Period. A believer who understands the situation as they do, and I do, HAS to obey God, God established marriage and that is that. There is no hate involved, it's about the law, not the people. And again, the Oregon bakers made a little cake for the couple they'd refused, expressing love toward them. The hate is all coming from you, blood-curdling hate.
You're entitled to preach that in your church but, its continued open expression in the marketplace is an abomination to secular society.
If Christians are put in the position of having to choose to obey God or a secular law, we obey God, and that is what legalizing gay marriage has done to Christians in businesses that cater weddings. "We should obey God rather than man" it says in Acts 5:19. Your not believing in God makes no difference to what we do. Of course the state can punish those who choose God and has done so already. Maybe you could get yourself elected to some post where you could help determine the punishment? It sounds like it would give you much delight. Torture? Would that appease your secular conscience?
I understand that those words secular society are what chafe the souls of you and your TrueChristianTM fellows.
Secular society doesn't always make laws we can't obey. I'm sorry our disobedience is hurtful to some but that's the law's fault, not ours.
Your open actions of hate and oppression, to humiliate and degrade those who are different, are seen by you as some kind of god-given right to purify the people and sanctify what should be a christian society.
Um, no. We're talking about a particular law that can put us in a difficult position, that's all. Your imagination is running away with you.
You believe that stopping your hateful oppression of others is an oppression of your Christianity. Such is the twisted mind of the TrueChristianTM.
Well, it IS an oppression of Christianity to devise a law that forces us to make the choice this one does. I don't know why you keep arguing about it either since from the beginning it's been clear that we know and expect that disobedience to this law will get us punished. Isn't that enough for you? (Obviously not, you have to make sure we are verbally raked over the coals. At what point will the raking bre enough for you?)
Well, get used to it, Luv. Enlightenment 2.0 is upon us and there will be much more of this in the decades to come.
Again, isn't that what I've been saying from the beginning of this thread? It's the oddest thing. What I've said from the beginning keeps being said back to me as if I hadn't said it. Strange indeed.
You need to wear a napkin around your neck by the way, to keep the viper's venom from staining your shirt.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2017 5:06 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 253 of 1484 (802501)
03-17-2017 9:35 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by AZPaul3
03-17-2017 5:06 AM


Re: FYI
Your Christian conscience is borne of hate, ill will and malice toward fellow human beings.
I dunno, man. You're the one cheering death. Just sayin'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by AZPaul3, posted 03-17-2017 5:06 AM AZPaul3 has seen this message but not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 254 of 1484 (802502)
03-17-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
03-17-2017 9:17 AM


What about divorce? I mean really now.
This whole obsession with gay "sins" confuses me. Sorry if this was already addressed but all the loaded side issues have larded this discussion and I missed the actual theological specifics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 9:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 9:54 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 255 of 1484 (802503)
03-17-2017 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Faith
03-17-2017 8:43 AM


Re: witchery
Oh but I do. The thing is I don't know God's will in this case.
But whatever it is, it'll be awesome, yes? 'Cos of him being God? If he smites Trump with the seven plagues of Egypt, that'll be good, and if he doesn't, that'll also be good, right? Surely the great thing about being a Calvinist is that you get to be totally stoked over anything that actually happens, since whatever does happen is God's wondrous plan which it would be blasphemous to disapprove of in any way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 8:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 03-17-2017 1:47 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
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