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Author Topic:   A good summary of so called human evolution.
NoNukes
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Posts: 9447
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 76 of 81 (802390)
03-16-2017 6:29 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Astrophile
03-13-2017 4:59 PM


If one rejects the fossil hominids mentioned by Mike's link, then so far as I can see, either humans (members of the genus Homo) must have evolved from other ancestors (either primates or non-primates) or the first humans must have come into existence without parents. Which of these possibilities does Mike prefer?

Uh, the one described in Genesis?

Is this really a serious question?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Astrophile, posted 03-13-2017 4:59 PM Astrophile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Astrophile, posted 03-18-2017 7:07 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9447
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 77 of 81 (802455)
03-16-2017 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Modulous
03-12-2017 8:31 PM


It should be noted too that all the entities proposed to be involved in abiogenesis have been observed.

That's a might bold claim that I am not sure that I believe. Have we really observed non-living chemical replicators and all of the intermediates between them and a living cell? I thought we were still postulating about what that path might have been. Surely you aren't just saying that we have found all of the organic compounds that make up living beings.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Modulous, posted 03-12-2017 8:31 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Modulous, posted 03-16-2017 4:38 PM NoNukes has responded

    
Modulous
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Posts: 7407
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 78 of 81 (802466)
03-16-2017 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by NoNukes
03-16-2017 3:08 PM


That's a might bold claim that I am not sure that I believe. Have we really observed non-living chemical replicators and all of the intermediates between them and a living cell?

We have seen chemicals. We have seen replicators. We have even seen replicating chemicals to some extent - such as vesicles. If we had seen all the things in your list, we would have basically witnessed abiogenesis, which we haven't.

However, we have seen all of its components, just not how the process of those components coming together to result in life or near as damn it to life.

Compare and contrast with the essential entities in theogenesis. We've not observed God, let alone shown how God creates life.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by NoNukes, posted 03-16-2017 3:08 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 03-17-2017 2:03 PM Modulous has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9447
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 79 of 81 (802548)
03-17-2017 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Modulous
03-16-2017 4:38 PM


However, we have seen all of its components, just not how the process of those components coming together to result in life or near as damn it to life.

We've only seen 'those components' in some generic sense. We have no idea which specific sets of components led to any particular unicellular life, which is yet another step before we can claim to have witnessed abiogenesis.

Abiogenesis is still a hypothesis.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Modulous, posted 03-16-2017 4:38 PM Modulous has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Modulous, posted 03-17-2017 2:54 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7407
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 80 of 81 (802553)
03-17-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by NoNukes
03-17-2017 2:03 PM


We've only seen 'those components' in some generic sense. We have no idea which specific sets of components led to any particular unicellular life, which is yet another step before we can claim to have witnessed abiogenesis.

Sure, but I never claimed anyone had witnessed abiogenesis. I said that entities that go towards abiogenesis had been observed. Lifeless chemicals, chemical reactions and living chemical systems. Putting it miles ahead of theogenesis.

Abiogenesis is still a hypothesis.

But it's a much stronger hypothesis than theogenesis which has not produced its key proposed entities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by NoNukes, posted 03-17-2017 2:03 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
Astrophile
Member
Posts: 58
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 81 of 81 (802644)
03-18-2017 7:07 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by NoNukes
03-16-2017 6:29 AM


Is this really a serious question?

Not really. I just wanted to make the implications of Mike's rejection of the fossil evidence for human evolution as clear as possible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by NoNukes, posted 03-16-2017 6:29 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
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