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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1469 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LGBT-affirming Christian denominations shows that same-sex marriage is NOT an attack on Christianity and so far none of the Christian groups whining about the issue have presented any evidence to show there they would suffer any harm from affirming same-sex marriages or baking wedding cakes for a same-sex marriage or renting rooms to same-sex couples or in any other claimed affirmation.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: (I suggest that you know that we represent the true God and you have to shut HIM up because he DOES have power over you. Yet here you've pretty much shut him up with laws and yet you go on yelling about it.) No Faith, we know that you are simply marketing a picayune little god you all made up and there is absolutely no need to shut HIM up since he has never said anything.
Faith writes: Yes, I think you do know you're fighting against God Himself. Nobody wins that fight. You can have thousands of gay marriages, and all the Christians could disappear -- and maybe we will -- but you can't get rid of God. No Faith no one is doing anything but pointing out that you are not marketing God but rather just another caricature, a cartoon. Such fights get won all the time. And as a Christian it is our duty to expose the false gods that you market.
Faith writes: The usual stupid nitpick to distract from the point, which is that we CAN'T object without being punished. Of course you can object. No one is stopping any of you from objecting. In fact it would be great if the baker had gone home and told his family, "Man I baked a cake for a gay wedding today. It was about the most wonderful cake I have ever made but I really object to doing stuff like that. And you now what else I object to? They put mayo on my hamburger even after I asked them not to."
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: What Jesus never did was treat sinners as not sinners, or advocate disobeying God's laws. Once again Faith, the Bible says that you are wrong. Jesus said that if your ass falls in a crack on the Sabbath you should not wait until the next day to pull it out. The Bible says that even just common courtesy overrides God's laws as you have been shown several times in this very thread. See Message 13 for one example.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
NCE writes: I'm asking in principle, I understand that speech is explicitly protected and selling isn't. You pretty much covered it. One is protected, one is not.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Jesus defined the Sabbath as made for man, and said He Himself is the Lord of the Sabbath, the idea being that He has the power to define it, and it was meant to be a blessing and not a burden. Which is Jesus ignoring and countermanding the Word of God.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: IN this case yes. Times have changed, The Messiah has come. He is Lord of the Sabbath. He IS God, He can change His own Word. So God is inconsistent and God's words are like those of Humpty Dumpty. Yet more proof that the Bible itself is filled with contradictions.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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Faith writes: It isn't kind to destroy the concept of marriage or treat sin as not sin. No one is destroying the concept of marriage Faith. In fact they are enhancing and improving the concept of marriage. Other peoples sins are none of your business.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Nevertheless I object to gay marriage and to forcing people to accept it whose belief opposes it. Yet so far you have never shown even a single case where someone has been forced to accept gay marriage whose beliefs oppose it.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
The other important point is that no Christian in the US was forced to change their religious beliefs. I doubt that the bakers suddenly changed their beliefs to think gay marriage was just fine. If that had happened they would have simply baked the wedding cake; but they didn't.
No one has even tried or suggested that they had to change their beliefs. What has been said is that if they wish to have a public business they must treat all people equally regardless of their personal beliefs.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Civil rights for Jews doesn't force me to give up mine, but gay marriage does. Sorry Faith but that is simply not true. Gay marriage does not force anyone to give up their beliefs no matter how many times you make that claim.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Funny you keep lying about something that has been proved over and over here. You keep thinking you can force your own definition onto me? Get a clue. Then I imagine you can point out how I or anyone else forces any definition of anything on you.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Theo writes: If gays destroy marriage by getting married, then non-christians must also, since they are not getting married before the christian sky daddy. Probably not as long as they are a man and a woman. But they can't live at the man's parents I imagine. That seems it would destroy all marriage based on the cherry picked verse she uses. They may be able to live with the woman's parents but not sure about that. Of course if one or more of them happen to have be divorced and then remarry it would likely destroy all marriage. Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined:
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nwr writes: Right. It is called "common law marriage". And it isn't a Christian thing. If anything, Christians have been opposed to it and have considered it to be sinful. Yet the biblical references that you gave, if anything at all to do with marriage, were about common law marriage. And wedding cakes are not involved. There is a greater point. What you say is true and what the writers have the Jesus character saying has to do with the issue of fidelity. Marriage is an entirely different subject. Marriage was necessary as part of the inheritance cycle. The whole purpose of marriage was related to power, influence and property.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: If the custom for weddings in some culture was meat pies I assume a biblical Christian in that culture would have to refuse to make meat pies for a gay wedding. If the custom was marching through the streets with sparklers I assume the Christian supplier of sparklers would have to refuse to sell them for a gay wedding. Yes, we understand that is what you assume, however once again reality shows you are wrong. Throughout this and many other threads you have been shown that not only is there no real Biblical support for the position you try to market, there is overwhelming Biblical support for a biblical Christian making meat pies for a gay wedding or selling sparklers for a gay wedding. One such lesson can be found in Message 13 and there are many other lessons you can learn throughout the thread.
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jar Member (Idle past 419 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Faith writes: Your reading of the Bible is irrelevant. This is a problem for conservative Bible-believers and THEIR reading determines that they can't provide a service for a gay wedding. Correct. It is all a problem only in their minds and not based on what the Bible actually says but rather on the fantasy they have created. Got it. So stop implying that it has anything to do with believing in the Bible or what the Bible says or God's laws or marriage or sexuality. It is a problem created by their interpretations, a problem in their minds only and so nothing the rest of society should consider or be concerned about. Nor are they forced to change their beliefs. They are free to continue their beliefs.
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