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Author Topic:   The Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 526 of 960 (803413)
03-29-2017 7:50 PM
Reply to: Message 525 by Faith
03-29-2017 7:24 PM


Re: First Amendment
Faith writes:
That's just your silly misreading. I don't know how many confused people agree with you [I'd guess zero myself] but the vast majority know it's all one creation story.
Again Faith, reality says your guess is once again wrong. Here is a section from the 1981 Pastoral letter from Bishop Sims opposing Creationism being taught as science in ANY school.
quote:
In the Bible the intermingling of why and how is evident, especially in the opening chapters of Genesis. There the majestic statements of God's action, its value and the place of humanity in it, use an orderly and sequential statement of method. The why of the divine work is carried in a primitive description of how the work was done.
But even here the distinction between religion and science is clear. In Genesis there is not one creation statement but two. They agree as to why and who, but are quite different as to how and when. The statements are set forth in tandem, chapter one of Genesis using one description of method and chapter two another. According to the first, humanity was created, male and female, after the creation of plants and animals. According to the second, man was created first, then the trees, the animals and finally the woman and not from the earth as in the first account, but from the rib of the man. Textual research shows that these two accounts are from two distinct eras, the first later in history, the second earlier.
He goes on to say:
quote:
Insistence upon dated and partially contradictory statements of how as conditions for true belief in the why of creation cannot qualify either as faithful religion or as intelligent science. Neither evolution over an immensity of time nor the work done in a six-day week are articles of the creeds. It is a symptom of fearful and unsound religion to contend with one another as if they were.
Just as there are two mutually exclusive and contradictory flood myths in the Bible, there are two contradictory creation myths.
Nothing you have presented so far Faith has shown even the smallest evidence that there are any Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 525 by Faith, posted 03-29-2017 7:24 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 12:34 AM jar has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 527 of 960 (803414)
03-30-2017 12:34 AM
Reply to: Message 526 by jar
03-29-2017 7:50 PM


Re: First Amendment
So you do have a source for your nonsense. Interesting. there are lots of deceived Christians out there, so now I know about another one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 526 by jar, posted 03-29-2017 7:50 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 528 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 7:06 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 528 of 960 (803418)
03-30-2017 7:06 AM
Reply to: Message 527 by Faith
03-30-2017 12:34 AM


Re: First Amendment
Faith writes:
So you do have a source for your nonsense.
Yes, the source is called "The Bible". You may have heard of it. But there is nothing deceptive or deceived about the position I present, rather it is Biblically based.
But the topic is your claim that there is some Totalitarian Leftist Tactics against the Right and so far you have not presented any evidence that might support such a conclusion or even such a hypothesis.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 527 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 12:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22391
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 529 of 960 (803419)
03-30-2017 7:29 AM


North Carolina is planning to repeal their HB2 act that eliminates LBGT discrimination protections. HB2 required LGBT's to use public bathrooms corresponding to their birth certificates. From CNN: North Carolina leaders agree to repeal bathroom bill, but many see flaws
The repeal bill, which many dismissively label HB2.0, doesn't provide any LGBT protections, and prevents municipalities from passing their own protections until 2020.
Loss of business has been cited as the reason for the repeal. Movie-making and sports events have flowed out of the state to other venues, and it's affected tourism.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar.
Edited by Percy, : Improve clarity.

Replies to this message:
 Message 530 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 7:50 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 530 of 960 (803420)
03-30-2017 7:50 AM
Reply to: Message 529 by Percy
03-30-2017 7:29 AM


and the Republicans are still lying.
What is frightening or should be frightening is that once again the Republicans are using headlines to hide their real motives and actions. This is "ProLife" dishonesty all over again. The key component in both bills is not the bathroom just as "ProLife" has nothing to do with being prolife; but is the inclusion of "employment". That strips away the right of any municipality to enact laws protecting LBGT people from discrimination.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Percy, posted 03-30-2017 7:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 1:04 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 531 of 960 (803426)
03-30-2017 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 520 by 14174dm
03-29-2017 4:05 PM


Re: First Amendment
You do realize that Catholics complained about schools using the Protestant KJV in 1890. I think Mormons were complaining around then too. My understanding is that the Catholic school system was a reaction to the Protestant controlled schools forcing Protestant practices on Catholic kids.
Excellent job of actually citing the law and real history in the face of unsupportable statements about what the early constitution allowed. Let me continue this line of argument.
If you want to cite a directly germane early Supreme Court decision, I think the most relevant would be Reynolds v. United States decided in 1878.
quote:
Finally, the Court concluded that people cannot excuse themselves from the law because of their religion. Can a man excuse his [illegal] practicesbecause of his religious belief? To permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself. Government could exist only in name under such circumstances
[1]
Like it or not, this was the state of constitutional law in 1878 as well as now. The principle in question is not some new invention by the left or by liberal, activist, judges. Further, the decision is backed by the statement of at least one Founding Father:
quote:
Thomas Jefferson in which he wrote that there was a distinction between religious belief and action that flowed from religious belief. The former "lies solely between man and his God," therefore "the legislative powers of the government reach actions only, and not opinions." The court considered that if polygamy was allowed, someone might eventually argue that human sacrifice was a necessary part of their religion, and "to permit this would be to make the professed doctrines of religious belief superior to the law of the land, and in effect to permit every citizen to become a law unto himself."
[2]
And of course, the principle that Thomas Jefferson warned about is exactly the principle that Faith espouses here. Namely that her religious beliefs should allow her to take actions with impunity. Well, fortunately, that canard was never enshrined in the constitution. Small wonder it is being given short shrift here.
[1]Reynolds v. United States (1879) - Bill of Rights Institute
[2]Reynolds v. United States - Wikipedia
Edited by NoNukes, : Tweak punctuation and correct one word.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 520 by 14174dm, posted 03-29-2017 4:05 PM 14174dm has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 534 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:16 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 532 of 960 (803427)
03-30-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 529 by Percy
03-30-2017 7:29 AM


While NC acts to weaken HB2...
In other news Trump makes moves in the opposite direction by issuing an executive order targeting an Obama rule intended to protect LGBT and other minorities.
quote:
An executive order President Trump signed Monday rescinded an executive order President Obama implemented that would have required companies that contract with the federal government to provide documentation about their compliance with various federal laws. Some have argued that this will make it harder to enforce the LGBT protections President Obama implemented for employees of federal contractors  as well as many other protections those workers enjoyed.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 529 by Percy, posted 03-30-2017 7:29 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 533 of 960 (803428)
03-30-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 530 by jar
03-30-2017 7:50 AM


Re: and the Republicans are still lying.
That strips away the right of any municipality to enact laws protecting LBGT people from discrimination.
The sole motivation for this supposed repeal is to convince the NCAA to resume holding events in North Carolina. The NCAA is holding scheduling meetings on April 18 at which they will decide event sites for the next several year. I believe that the North Carolina legislature has miscalculated.
Even if they pass this supposed repeal, they may not agree that it is a real repeal or that it addresses LGBT concerns. And even if events are initially scheduled in NC, public pressure could easily result in those events being pulled again.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 530 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 7:50 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 534 of 960 (803430)
03-30-2017 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 531 by NoNukes
03-30-2017 12:45 PM


Re: First Amendment
When I said action based on belief also must be allowed I certainly did not mean anything illegal or dangerous, the point was that Christian action is none of those things, it's completely benign. We aren't jihadists or polygamists or human sacrificers or any of the rest of it. The worst we do is evangelize on street corners, ring bells for donations at Christmastime and that sort of thing. If it weren't for the gay marriage law there would never have been a conflict between Christian belief and secular law.
Such things as Muslims taking up whole streets for their prayers is something else.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 531 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 12:45 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 535 by jar, posted 03-30-2017 1:45 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 1:45 PM Faith has replied
 Message 542 by Modulous, posted 03-30-2017 5:11 PM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 535 of 960 (803432)
03-30-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by Faith
03-30-2017 1:16 PM


Once again reality shows Faith is wrong.
Faith writes:
When I said action based on belief also must be allowed I certainly did not mean anything illegal or dangerous, the point was that Christian action is none of those things, it's completely benign.
Utter nonsense Faith. The law suits were brought ONLY because the so called Christians were doing things that were illegal.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:16 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 536 of 960 (803433)
03-30-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 534 by Faith
03-30-2017 1:16 PM


Re: First Amendment
When I said action based on belief also must be allowed I certainly did not mean anything illegal or dangerous, the point was that Christian action is none of those things, it's completely benign.
As I have demonstrated using references and a Supreme Court decision dating from 1878, the idea that actions contrary to law must be allowed has never been the correct interpretation of the First Amendment. Your saying so, over and over, does not advance your argument.
Beyond that, it is easy to show with historical actions that the actions of Christians based on their beliefs have not always been benign.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 534 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:49 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 537 of 960 (803435)
03-30-2017 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 536 by NoNukes
03-30-2017 1:45 PM


Re: First Amendment
The context was the Jefferson quote.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 536 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 1:45 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 1:56 PM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 538 of 960 (803436)
03-30-2017 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 537 by Faith
03-30-2017 1:49 PM


Re: First Amendment
The context was the Jefferson quote.
The context for your remark was a portion of the Jefferson quote, and in picking that out, you missed the thrust of the quote which was that we don't allow small deviations from the law because that invites the larger.
Beyond that, your proposed actions towards gay folks, and I say proposed because you don't actually own a bakery, are not harmless, and they are certainly illegal.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 537 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 1:49 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 539 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 2:03 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 539 of 960 (803437)
03-30-2017 2:03 PM
Reply to: Message 538 by NoNukes
03-30-2017 1:56 PM


Re: First Amendment
Beyond that, your proposed actions towards gay folks, and I say proposed because you don't actually own a bakery, are not harmless, and they are certainly illegal
jAs I keep saying, there has never been a conflict between Christian practice -- not some crazy Christians acting on their own misunderstandings but CHRISTIAN PRACTICE -- until the gay marriage law.
And that one violates the Bible and not some weirdo misreading of the Bible, so conservative Bible believers are not going to give it up, so persecute us to your heart's content already.
.abe: If things keep going as they've been going, it won't be confined to wedding businesses, we'll be getting punished for merely saying that homosexuality is a sin and gay marriage is wrong.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 538 by NoNukes, posted 03-30-2017 1:56 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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14174dm
Member (Idle past 1108 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 540 of 960 (803440)
03-30-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 523 by Faith
03-29-2017 5:38 PM


Re: First Amendment
... Satan is the author of all the other religions, over which demons have installed themselves as gods.
So is it acceptable for a Christian to bake a wedding cake for a ceremony where demons are blessing the couple?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 523 by Faith, posted 03-29-2017 5:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 541 by Faith, posted 03-30-2017 3:49 PM 14174dm has not replied

  
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