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Author Topic:   What is a Strawman?
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 1 of 9 (80294)
01-23-2004 11:08 AM


A scarecrow!
There that's my definition. Now we have a place for Phillip to demonstrate that he does no what a strawman arguement is and in what fashion the ToE is a strawman.
He, rightfully, declined to do this where it would be off topic.
But since he has used the term so much I think it would be damaging to his credibility if I didn't give him a chance to demonstrate that he does, indeed, know what he is talking about.

Common sense isn't

Replies to this message:
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Darwin's Terrier
Inactive Member


Message 2 of 9 (80306)
01-23-2004 11:52 AM


I thought the Straw Man didn't have a brain, that's why he was going to see the Wizard. Or was it that straw man arguments are brainless... I do so get confused...

  
:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7184 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 3 of 9 (80307)
01-23-2004 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
01-23-2004 11:08 AM


The theory of evolution says that all the monkeys turned into people.
Since there are still monkeys around, the theory must be wrong.
Therefore evolution is false.

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Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 4 of 9 (80314)
01-23-2004 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by :æ:
01-23-2004 12:03 PM


Strawberry fields medals forever
I guess that by definition, a "strawman" is an argument based on a faulty foundation. By definition, a foundation must be provable and verifiable. With this logic in mind, no creationist or biblical absolutist argument can qualify as sound. We can only declare the Bible as a valid truth based on our faith. Faith by itself never qualifies as a provable or verifiable concept. I maintain, however, that this does not rule out the possibility(which I believe is a fact) that there is an Omnipotant Creator who did come to earth as a man....Jesus Christ. I believe that it is also possible that human reasoning is flawed due to the Original Sin concept. I cannot prove my belief, however. ============================>

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mark24
Member (Idle past 5195 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 5 of 9 (80317)
01-23-2004 1:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by NosyNed
01-23-2004 11:08 AM



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Dan Carroll
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 9 (80318)
01-23-2004 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
01-23-2004 12:52 PM


Re: Strawberry fields medals forever
quote:
I guess that by definition, a "strawman" is an argument based on a faulty foundation.
Not exactly. A strawman argument is when you attribute an argument to your opponent that is not theirs, and then argue against it. (Because it is easier to argue against than what your opponent is actually saying.)
For instance, imagine someone said, "People who were against the war in Iraq think the Iraqi people don't deserve freedom. That's not true, because everyone deserves freedom. Therefore, their objections to the war in Iraq are invalid." That would be a strawman. Who's arguing that the Iraqis don't deserve freedom? Nobody. But it's a really easy position to argue against, right?
I've posted this page on this forum before, but it's always worth pointing out again.

"It isn't faith that makes good science, it's curiosity."
-Professor Barnhard, The Day the Earth Stood Still

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:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7184 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 7 of 9 (80325)
01-23-2004 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
01-23-2004 12:52 PM


Re: Strawberry fields medals forever
Phatboy writes:
I guess that by definition, a "strawman" is an argument based on a faulty foundation.
In my example, the strawman was in the first line where I claim that the theory of evolution states that all monkeys turned into people. That is in fact false, the theory of evolution says no such thing. Therefore my argument which concludes that the theory of evolution is false because monkeys are still around is based on attacking something else that is NOT the real theory of evolution. It's attacking a strawman.
Another example:
Person A's position: Morals are subjective.
Person B's response: Person A doesn't have any morals! Therefore he/she is wrong.
This is a combination fallacy of attacking a strawman, and ad hominem or attacking the person. It is not the case that Person A is without morals, it is simply the case that this Person A doesn't believe them to be objectively true. Furthermore, whether or not Person A has morals is irrelevant to the truth or falsity of Person A's actual claim.

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8996
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 8 of 9 (80344)
01-23-2004 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by :æ:
01-23-2004 1:43 PM


good answers - wrong posters
Very nice, but I was kinda thinkin' that Phillip should be given a chance. Now he can at least show us how the ToE is a "strawman" as he has been asserting.

Common sense isn't

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:æ: 
Suspended Member (Idle past 7184 days)
Posts: 423
Joined: 07-23-2003


Message 9 of 9 (80352)
01-23-2004 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by NosyNed
01-23-2004 2:49 PM


Re: good answers - wrong posters
Sorry Ned, but I guess I sorted doubted that Philip would actually follow through with a demonstration of his notion of the Strawman concept, andm so I opted to simply demonstrate plainly what a real strawman is.
I know that it probably could have been a better learning experience for Philip if we had allowed him to trot out his erroneous conception of this fallacy and then ripped it to shreds, but it just seemed to me that the mere initiation of a thread dedicated to that end seems like a trap. I was betting that Philip would have been wise enough to dodge the thread rather than humiliating himself by laying his ignorance bare.

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