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Author Topic:   Gay Marriage as an attack on Christianity
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 901 of 1484 (803718)
04-04-2017 12:43 AM
Reply to: Message 900 by LamarkNewAge
04-03-2017 8:56 PM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
Well, that's as clear as pea soup.
ABE: Did you mean my mention of Protestants as an argument from authority? If so it wasn't. It's a way of saying I'm a Protestant, my sources are Protestant, I think like a Protestant, I don't get this "Roman Empire Christian" nonsense.
For the rest I just don't understand what point you are trying to make, as usual. Seems to me I already covered the decision by the council to limit the burden on the Gentiles.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 900 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-03-2017 8:56 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 903 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-04-2017 1:38 AM Faith has replied
 Message 906 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-04-2017 2:42 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 902 of 1484 (803720)
04-04-2017 1:23 AM
Reply to: Message 897 by jar
04-03-2017 5:41 PM


Acts 4:32-35 is not about simple charity but rather specifically says that none of the believers claimed ownership of any possessions and those that needed were supplied and those that could support supported.
From each according to his ability, to each according to his need(s). It describes how they lived and a was one of the sources that
inspired Marx.
That passage as I said applied only to the Jerusalem church at that time, not all the churches in all times. It is understood by commentators to be partly a result of the knowledge that Jerusalem was going to be destroyed (which happened in 70AD) but also was the natural result of the power of God on them in those early days. It was a spontaneous event, not any kind of formal arrangement, just an outpouring of generosity on the part of those who had the means toward the poor of their church.
Marx was no doubt inspired by it, sad result when such a spontaneous spiritual outpouring is systematized and forced on people. There was never any idea of establishing any kind of system in the church, it was completely voluntary, and there is evidence later that people continued to own their own property.
You also misattributed my comment about "simple charity" which was meant to explain Acts 11:29 in your Message 874 about believers who were in Antioch sending aid to Jerusalem during the famine that occurred in Claudius' time.
All this is clear enough from the text alone.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by jar, posted 04-03-2017 5:41 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 916 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 8:13 AM Faith has replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 903 of 1484 (803721)
04-04-2017 1:38 AM
Reply to: Message 901 by Faith
04-04-2017 12:43 AM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
The Jewish Christian Apostolic body said that the Jewish Christians would do all the compromising and not require circumcision - as that issue, despite being the first concern for Jews, was simply a nationalistic marker.
But moral issues like killing animals humanely (assuming they would still have a need to sacrifice for a while longer and assuming that food from animal flesh was allowed to be eaten at all for the next few decades which might have been proscribed wholly or impart when one looks at what was practically possible due to other limits on "freedom ") and fornication were required commandments to follow.
Necessary is the word.
You said that these weren't necessary rules to follow.
You know that contradicts the text.
Just like you said the issues were ceremonial.
You know that is false because even you know fornication isn't a temporary issue and has nothing to do with Jewish and Gentile issues - especially in an Apostolic Christian mileu.
Just like you are wrong to say the text somehow made gentiles compromise when they didn't have any burden aside from fundamental moral laws like proper slaughter and no fornication. (chapter 21 shows us that your claim that gentiles had made these imaginary compromises 'most important to Jews' to be the pure bunk it should have been seen as from the start )

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 12:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 904 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 1:46 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 904 of 1484 (803723)
04-04-2017 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 903 by LamarkNewAge
04-04-2017 1:38 AM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
They weren't necessary rules because they were a concession to the Jewish conscience and had no standing otherwise, but of course they were necessary in the sense that they would be bound to obey them for that very reason, as a concession.
Perhaps you are right about the temple context but that seems rather iirrelevant, the point being only that these were laws the Gentiles were not accustomed to following and now were asked to follow for the sake of the Jews. If this was before the destruction of the Temple and they were strictly tied to the Temple then I guess they would have ceased at that time?
I don't mean to include fornication in the ceremonial laws, but I found at least one commentator saying this wasn't just garden-variety fornication but something connected to idolatry, which I'd have to look up again.
Then you go on to accuse me of something I don't recognize. I'm just going to have to TRY to bow out of this discussion, it's going nowhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 903 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-04-2017 1:38 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 905 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-04-2017 2:22 AM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 905 of 1484 (803724)
04-04-2017 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 904 by Faith
04-04-2017 1:46 AM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
I am amazed you engaged in this Acts 15 issue to the extent that you did. I expected you would end it sooner.
Glad to hear that you have recognized that 15:28 used the word necessary to do with the commands.
I see you now have noticed that there is a strain of 'ceremonial fornication ' analysis among Christian scholars. I was trying very hard to bring that point up with regards to the I Corinthians situation.
I'm not so sure gentiles had to make some radical adjustment on food. The fact is that most people were too poor to eat meat anyway back then. I read about a (forget exactly the year ) Fourth century Christian in Egypt who chopped wood all day and made enough from his employer to buy 2 small loafs of bread every day (and that was all his wages got him ). That was typical
.
Gentiles were uncircumcised and that means they did not compromise and become Jewish Christians which would have torn down a massive barrier to enable unity.
Paul circumcised Timothy in chapter 16 just to avoid trouble with Jewish Christians and Jews themselves.
James still sent Peter and Barnabas to circumcise gentiles AFTER the Apostolic Council. See Galatians.
The Apostolic Council was not about gentiles compromising and animal flesh slaughter issue is too complicated for the unobjective and crooked agenda of evangelical commentary . The truth is that Apostolic Christianity was making all sorts of changes on meat/animal flesh issues (and not all consistent for the next few decades at the time of the Apostolic Council ) and fundamentalist Christianity of today is not open minded towards the larger body of evidence(inside scripture and extra biblical data ) that can help enlighten us all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 904 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 1:46 AM Faith has not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member (Idle past 738 days)
Posts: 2236
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 906 of 1484 (803725)
04-04-2017 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 901 by Faith
04-04-2017 12:43 AM


Re: Your Roman Empire Council "church" Faith?
The Roman Empire faith you have is based on your view that the Roman Empire Councils are the source of your faith. You told me that salvation is on the line if one rejects the Roman Empire Councils starting in 325 AD.
You also have admitted that Paul isn't your source for your support for having the government outlaw same sex marriage.
Since the Roman Empire in the shadow of the Imperial Church outlawed gay marriage in 342 then I assume that you get your theology from the budding theocracy (soon it would become full blown theocratic hell though the once tolerant Roman Empire was getting really bad already before the middle fourth century and real Christians were about to become extinct ) on the marriage issue too.
But I'm still not sure what justification you have for opposition to secular government allowing gay marriage. You seem to have an ideological disposition for theocracy (the Roman Empire theocracy is your spiritual cradle ) and the idea of secular government is just not in your spiritual DNA. It is too repugnant for you to consider an ideal government unlike the Christian Roman Empire.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 12:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 929 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 3:48 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied
 Message 930 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 4:13 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 907 of 1484 (803728)
04-04-2017 4:10 AM
Reply to: Message 867 by vimesey
04-03-2017 6:13 AM


Equality is possibly the most devious "wolf in sheep's clothing" ever conceived by the devil. Wouldn't mind a dollar for every person sucked in by this nice word.
Equality can be used for good, but sometimes it's an excuse for evil. Feminsim is another fine of example of the power of equality to "kill, steal and destroy".
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 867 by vimesey, posted 04-03-2017 6:13 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 908 of 1484 (803729)
04-04-2017 4:23 AM
Reply to: Message 868 by jar
04-03-2017 6:59 AM


I've never read the Bible. I didn't know that.
I don't know anything about Jesus or his message. I didn't know that.
Btw, what is his message, in your opinion?
All the goats were his followers. I didn't know that and I wonder what you mean by this.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 868 by jar, posted 04-03-2017 6:59 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 917 by jar, posted 04-04-2017 8:16 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 909 of 1484 (803731)
04-04-2017 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 866 by Faith
04-03-2017 3:53 AM


Some kind of put-on? Er, no; these are my considered thoughts (I am a practisng Catholic, btw.). What do you want me to explain?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 866 by Faith, posted 04-03-2017 3:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 914 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 7:44 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 910 of 1484 (803732)
04-04-2017 4:50 AM
Reply to: Message 870 by vimesey
04-03-2017 10:27 AM


If you want to see the destructive power of feminism in action, look no further than Japan, which is heading for extinction due to its low birth-rate. After World War II, America forced Japan to include the right for women to vote in its new Constitution. This allowed the poison of feminism in the door and now the masses of young Japanese women are more interested in education and a career in the workforce than being mothers. Japan also has a very high rate of abortion - feminism's penchant for killing the unborn is well known.
Feminism is sold off as "equality ... empowement ... and liberation" to the gullible masses, but it looks a lot like genocide-in-slow-motion to me.
Below-replacement level birth-rates is a feature of almost every nation that has embraced feminism. Are you telling me you haven't noticed? If a cattle breeder, for example, discovered that more of his herd are dying than being born, he would rightly see this as a recipe for disaster. As Cardinal Pell says, "Populate or perish."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 870 by vimesey, posted 04-03-2017 10:27 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 911 by vimesey, posted 04-04-2017 5:29 AM Dredge has replied

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1398
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011


(1)
Message 911 of 1484 (803733)
04-04-2017 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 910 by Dredge
04-04-2017 4:50 AM


Ok, your responses are straying very much off-topic, and one of the rules here is that you must stay on the topic of the thread - and start a new thread for a new topic.
As a result, I won't respond to your statements re feminism and wider equality. That would involve me going off-topic.
I'm also left querying the extent to which we're being Poe'd here - you state that you're a practising Catholic, and also state that you've never read the Bible. I question therefore the seriousness of your posts, and the depths of your research in making your points.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 910 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2017 4:50 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 912 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2017 6:01 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 912 of 1484 (803734)
04-04-2017 6:01 AM
Reply to: Message 911 by vimesey
04-04-2017 5:29 AM


Sorry, it seems that I didn't express myself properly: I didn't mean to say that I haven't read the Bible; I was questioning another poster's claim that I haven't read the Bible (I should have used a question mark).
So I'll set the record straight - I have read the Bible.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 911 by vimesey, posted 04-04-2017 5:29 AM vimesey has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 913 of 1484 (803735)
04-04-2017 6:15 AM


Any form of gay rights is an attack on Christianity. The day is coming when anyone preaching against homosexuality with be charged with "hate speech" and thrown in prison. Jesus warned his followers that they would be persecuted and imprisoned (and much worse) on account of his name. The Antichrist is on his way and his followers are gaining in number and strength - look out!

Replies to this message:
 Message 915 by Faith, posted 04-04-2017 8:00 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 921 by ringo, posted 04-04-2017 11:59 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 914 of 1484 (803737)
04-04-2017 7:44 AM
Reply to: Message 909 by Dredge
04-04-2017 4:28 AM


Edit: This post is pretty obsolute by now as I see you've said you HAVE read the Bible, and expanded more on the idea of equality, feminism anyway.
=======================
Some kind of put-on? Er, no; these are my considered thoughts (I am a practisng Catholic, btw.). What do you want me to explain?
Interesting! I first took you for a Christian and then after everybody else was treating your post as a put-on I thought maybe they were right, because you didn't come back right away for one thing and your terminology wasn't quite what I'd expect. So I'm sorry about that, I take you as for real now.l
It's interesting that you are a Catholic and haven't read the Bible. But nothing jar said is true about Jesus, just so you know. You'll probably have to read it to find out.
Are your thoughts about equality related to your Catholicism or not? A Christian has reasons to object to equality but I don't think it would be put quite that way, but it's interesting so please say more.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 909 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2017 4:28 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 963 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 5:35 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 915 of 1484 (803738)
04-04-2017 8:00 AM
Reply to: Message 913 by Dredge
04-04-2017 6:15 AM


Any form of gay rights is an attack on Christianity. The day is coming when anyone preaching against homosexuality with be charged with "hate speech" and thrown in prison. Jesus warned his followers that they would be persecuted and imprisoned (and much worse) on account of his name. The Antichrist is on his way and his followers are gaining in number and strength - look out!
Very very true, and now you DO sound more like a Christian. That is very definitely where things are going with homosexuality unless God intervenes -- won't be able to refer to it as sin, have to accept it as a "normal" sexual variation. I have enough trouble getting anyone to notice gay marriage is an attack on Christianity, already proven with a few lawsuits against Christian wedding business owners. The key word here is "discrimination" against gays.
(By the way I believe what the Protestant Reformers said about the Pope being the Antichrist, but I'm waiting to see. I think it won't be long before we'll know. I figure there will also be a lot of Catholics who will recognize the Antichrist-Pope if it is him).
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by Dredge, posted 04-04-2017 6:15 AM Dredge has not replied

  
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