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Author Topic:   Why We Get Fat by Gary Taubes
New Cat's Eye
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Message 16 of 45 (803751)
04-04-2017 11:25 AM


Ran across this and was reminded of this topic, if anyone wants to read an interview with the author:

http://www.gq.com/story/gary-taubes-sugar-interview


  
Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
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Message 17 of 45 (816464)
08-04-2017 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Percy
05-08-2012 8:01 AM


Re: The Big Question
Percy writes:

The little detail is where you say, "Insulin encourages calories that would otherwise be burned to be stored...as fat." This is true, but insulin also encourages energy to be stored in all other types of cells as well, including muscle cells. All cells need energy.

The low carb diet encourages ketosis. The cells are fueled by ketones rather than strict glucose.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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Phat
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From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 18 of 45 (816528)
08-05-2017 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
09-11-2011 3:13 PM


Taubes Confirms my earlier reading of Rosedale and Fung.
Cat Sci writes:

Ran across this and was reminded of this topic, if anyone wants to read an interview with the author:
http://www.gq.com/story/gary-taubes-sugar-interview

Taubes mentions that a study is being undertaken that will answer many of Percys questions.
He wrote an article in the Scientific American titled What Makes You Fat: Too Many Calories, or the Wrong Carbohydrates?

A key initial experiment will be carried out jointly by researchers at Columbia University, the National Institutes of Health, the Florida Hospital–Sanford-Burnham Translational Research Institute in Orlando, and the Pennington Biomedical Research Center in Baton Rouge, La. In this pilot study, 16 overweight and obese participants will be housed throughout the experiment in research facilities to ensure accurate assessments of calorie consumption and energy expenditure. In stage one, the participants will be fed a diet similar to that of the average American—50 percent carbohydrates (15 percent sugar), 35 percent fat and 15 percent protein. Researchers will carefully manipulate the calories consumed until it is clear the participants are neither gaining nor losing fat. In other words, the calories they take in will match the calories they expend, as measured in a device called a metabolic chamber. For stage two, the subjects will be fed a diet of precisely the same number of calories they had been consuming—distributed over the same number of meals and snacks—but the composition will change dramatically.

The total carbohydrate content of the new diet will be exceedingly low—on the order of 5 percent, which translates to only the carbohydrates that occur naturally in meat, fish, fowl, eggs, cheese, animal fat and vegetable oil, along with servings of green leafy vegetables. The protein content of this diet will match that of the diet the subjects ate initially—15 percent of calories. The remainder—80 percent of calories—will consist of fat from these real food sources. The idea is not to test whether this diet is healthy or sustainable for a lifetime but to use it to lower insulin levels by the greatest amount in the shortest time.

Meaningful scientific experiments ideally set up a situation in which competing hypotheses make different predictions about what will happen. In this case, if fat accumulation is primarily driven by an energy imbalance, these subjects should neither lose nor gain weight because they will be eating precisely as many calories as they are expending. Such a result would support the conventional wisdom—that a calorie is a calorie whether it comes from fat, carbohydrate or protein. If, on the other hand, the macronutrient composition affects fat accumulation, then these subjects should lose both weight and fat on the carbohydrate-restricted regime and their energy expenditure should increase, supporting the idea that a calorie of carbohydrate is more fattening than one from protein or fat, presumably because of the effect on insulin.

The research that I have read about so far shows that Taubes is on the mark and that he, like Ron Rosedale and Jason Fung know the truth about the low carb diets and are waiting for conclusive research to solidify their claims and confirm the wisdom.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 19 of 45 (816540)
08-06-2017 1:26 AM


And now for something completely different
Reconnected with an old friend recently, who told me about trying a diet called The Starch Solution which is the complete opposite of the low carb diets we've been talking about. She did it because she was getting bouts of extremely high blood pressure and heard this diet is good for that. She says it worked within three days to bring her blood pressure down to the normal range, and she also lost weight on it when she kept it up.

Sigh.

The diet isn't brand new but I guess it was just a matter of time before we heard the other shoe drop or however that should be understood. It wouldn't work for me if we're talking lifestyle change because I couldn't eat all the starch on it without fat or meat, and some of it I couldn't eat anyway.

Starch Solution diet
The makeup of the diet you will adopt through The Starch Solution consists of 70 percent starch, no meat or dairy, 10 percent fruits and 20 percent vegetables. Starches identified in this book are barley, buckwheat, corn, millet, oats, rice, rye, sorghum, wheat, wild rice, beans, lentils, peas, fruits and vegetables.

But maybe it goes something like this: it's the combination of certain foods that's the main problem. Carbs work fine if you don't eat them with fat and meat, and likewise fat and meat work fine if you don't eat them with carbs.

Just reducing portions might make it possible to eat it all together. After all, if you're going to get all "paleo" about it, cave men must have eaten a lot of meat with its fat, while farmers raised a lot of grain. And bread is after all called "the staff of life," and I just checked the Bible and it's got ALL the categories of food mentioned. "Milk and honey." "Man does not live by bread alone." "The fatted calf." With butter yet. "Pulse" (vegetables). Lentil stew. "Cakes" with oil. Etc.

I don't know. But I hope there are more studies about all this stuff coming soon.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Phat
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Posts: 10227
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 20 of 45 (816547)
08-06-2017 2:12 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Faith
08-06-2017 1:26 AM


Re: And now for something completely different
Im guessing that the main benefit of that diet is fiber.

It may work for some body types, but most definitely not for mine.

Here is a good synopsis as to why the Low Carb diet works so well.

Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Jason Fung (Full Interview)


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

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Replies to this message:
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Minnemooseus
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From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
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Message 21 of 45 (816550)
08-06-2017 2:40 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
08-06-2017 2:12 AM


For whatever it's worth, Dr. Mercola has an entry at "Encyclopedia of American Loons"
Dr. Mercola Interviews Dr. Jason Fung (Full Interview)

Maybe he does put out some good, but...

http://americanloons.blogspot.com/...joseph-joe-mercola.html

quote:
The Richard Hoagland of medicine, Joseph Mercola is an osteopath and a frighteningly popular alternative medicine guru and (more or less) cult leader. He advocates and takes seriously more or less any idiotic crackpot or anti-science idea he comes across, including but not limited to flu-denialism and anti-vaxx –...

See source for more, including lots of links.

Moose


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10227
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 22 of 45 (816584)
08-07-2017 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Minnemooseus
08-06-2017 2:40 AM


Re: For whatever it's worth, Dr. Mercola has an entry at "Encyclopedia of American Loons"
Perhaps Dr.Mercola is eccentric and, like Dr.Oz, one to jump on multiple bandwagons in order to sell stuff.

The bottom line, however, is that low carb diets are not a fad. the science behind them is sound. Dr.Jason Fung is respectable, moreover.

Finally, I am not impressed with the website of the author of that encyclopedia...after all...what has he notably accomplished?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Minnemooseus, posted 08-06-2017 2:40 AM Minnemooseus has acknowledged this reply

  
Pressie
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Posts: 1851
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 23 of 45 (816585)
08-07-2017 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
09-11-2011 3:13 PM


Maybe anecdotal evidence work for me in this case. I cycle to work and back every day when the weather allows it (13 km one way) and I still use some of the same expensive clothes I wore 20 years ago. They still fit. And I eat a lot.

Maybe the answer is moderate excercise and books don't need to be sold about it? Just cycle along. It works for me.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


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Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 24 of 45 (816586)
08-07-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Pressie
08-07-2017 7:43 AM


why do we need all these special diets?
I think we need a thread like this because the American diet has been CAUSING us to gain weight and have all kinds of health problems, so unfortunately we need some guidelines to get us out of the situation. We aren't getting fat just because we overeat good natural food, though that may be the case for some, we're getting fat because there's so much processed stuff out there with so many bad things in it. Even the meat we eat is full of alien substances like hormones that affect our metabolism. Read some labels on packaged things in the market, to find out how much sugar is put into all sorts of foods you wouldn't think needed it, and different forms of sugar too so you have to know what all the chemical terms mean. And then there are the long lists of completely undecipherable chemicals in some things.

There's nothing natural about this problem, at least in America. Maybe South Africa doesn't have the same problems we have. Exercise is always a good thing of course and maybe it would do it for most of us -- not me though, too many joints down to bone on bone, but there are some forms of exercise I could do with my upper body if I could get motivated.

I sometimes think about the diet my English-Scottish grandparents and their eleven offspring ate on their ranch in Canada. Was it the extremely hard work they had to do to run the place, feed the animals, milk the cows, gather the eggs, weed the garden, kill the chickens and pluck them, can it all for overwintering and so on, or was it that the food itself was natural that explains why they were so skinny and tough and lived into their eighties and nineties? Maybe both. They ate all the "bad" things including white bread they made themselves, butter they made themselves, etc etc etc. I do doubt any of them had a self-indulgent moment in their lives, too many of them, too few resources for starters.

I don't know what the answer is now that we're so far down the wrong path. And my problem is I've reached a point where I can't get myself motivated to do much about it anyway.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10227
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 25 of 45 (816587)
08-07-2017 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
08-07-2017 8:33 AM


Re: why do we need all these special diets?
Faith writes:

I sometimes think about the diet my English-Scottish grandparents and their eleven offspring ate on their ranch in Canada. Was it the extremely hard work they had to do to run the place, feed the animals, milk the cows, gather the eggs, weed the garden, kill the chickens and pluck them, can it all for overwintering and so on, or was it that the food itself was natural that explains why they were so skinny and tough and lived into their eighties and nineties? Maybe both. They ate all the "bad" things including white bread they made themselves, butter they made themselves, etc etc etc.

In my opinion, the answer is both. Active people don't really need the low carb diet if their bodies are in balance and they have an active lifestyle. The low carb diet is one answer that addresses our cultures overindulgence of carbohydrates and the resulting increase in Type II Diabetes. Once the body is in balance, "starches" or carbs if you prefer can be eaten in reasonable moderation---provided that your lifestyle is active enough to burn them off as they are consumed.

Let me use an analogy. Picture a roaring fire in a fireplace. The fire feeds primarily off of the logs in the fire, correct? Newspaper and bits of wood are used to get the fire started. Imagine the logs to be the stored fat. Imagine the kindling and wadded newspaper to be the carbs. In the modern diet, too many people are living off of kindling and eating too many carbs. Additionally, they are not active enough to provide the movement necessary to stoke the flames.

Joseph Mercola may well be a borderline crackpot in regards to easy cures, but he jumped on the right bandwagon with the low carb approach..(sold another book about it too!) Low carb is the answer to the sales pitch of excess carbs sold to us by the food industry, who makes a lot of money on junk food.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : added


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 08-07-2017 8:33 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
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Posts: 13965
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 26 of 45 (816626)
08-08-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Pressie
08-07-2017 7:43 AM


Pressie writes:

Maybe the answer is moderate excercise and books don't need to be sold about it?


People don't put much value on things they don't pay for. Their doctor will give them a healthy diet tailor-made for them for free (in civilized countries) but they'd rather buy a book. They'd rather pay Jenny Craig to tell them what to eat.
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New Cat's Eye
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Joined: 01-27-2005
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Message 27 of 45 (816654)
08-08-2017 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
08-07-2017 8:33 AM


Re: why do we need all these special diets?
And my problem is I've reached a point where I can't get myself motivated to do much about it anyway.

Sounds like you need to have God in your life.


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Faith
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From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
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Message 28 of 45 (816657)
08-09-2017 2:16 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by New Cat's Eye
08-08-2017 11:15 PM


Re: why do we need all these special diets?
I haven't been motivated enough to bring God into it, I just don't care.
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Coyote
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Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 29 of 45 (816670)
08-09-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
08-09-2017 2:16 AM


Re: why do we need all these special diets?
You don't need motivation--just cut out all grains and sugars (and that includes potatoes).

Experiment with omelettes, see if you can make a really tasty sausage omelette. Emphasize good fats in your diet and just let the sugars go.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


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Phat
Member
Posts: 10227
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 30 of 45 (816671)
08-09-2017 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
08-09-2017 2:16 AM


Emotion = Energy In Motion
Faith writes:

I haven't been motivated enough to bring God into it, I just don't care.

I'll keep you in my prayers. You are being honest and open about your feelings about yourself, and you have also indicated that this is a topic that needs to be discussed. I for one would like to see you live a long and healthy life, so I encourage you to invest some of your passion and intellectual curiosity into your own health. You will feel so much better and be mentally sharper.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 08-09-2017 2:16 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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