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Author Topic:   Evidence for Evolution: Whale evolution
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 271 of 443 (803963)
04-06-2017 5:22 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Pressie
04-05-2017 6:31 AM


Someone who loves their whale-tale soup has pointed out that that I've gone off topic, which is a fair complaint, so I'll keep this short and just say that it's difficult to know exactly what this paleoenvironmental analysis in the Gulf of Mexico involves, but I'll bet my bottom dollar that it isn't dependent on whether speciation has occurred or not.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 272 of 443 (803971)
04-06-2017 6:44 AM
Reply to: Message 269 by Percy
04-05-2017 7:12 AM


You say that "evolution is the most important unifying concept in natural history" and that is "essential to our understanding in a myriad of ways".
If you could wave a magic wand and remove from human consciousness the notion that species evolve from other species - evolution's core doctrine - it wouldn't make an iota of difference to anything pertaining to the real world. So the theory of evoltion isn't "essential" in ANY way, let alone "a myriad" of ways. It's as irrelevant as a fairy tale.
The only "use" the theory of evolution has in atheist theology, where it may well be "essential" as a means to become, as Dawkins put it, "intellectually fulfilled".
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Percy, posted 04-05-2017 7:12 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Pressie, posted 04-06-2017 7:10 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 274 by Percy, posted 04-06-2017 8:44 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 275 by Tangle, posted 04-06-2017 9:11 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 276 by jar, posted 04-06-2017 9:31 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 277 by ringo, posted 04-06-2017 11:54 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 282 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-07-2017 1:37 PM Dredge has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 273 of 443 (803972)
04-06-2017 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:
you could wave a magic wand and remove from human consciousness the notion that species evolve from other species - evolution's core ingredient - it wouldn't make an iota of difference to anything pertaining to the real world.
Yet, we have seen species evolving into other species. Both in nature and in the lab. Right in front of our eyes. Also backed up by scientific evidence for those changes. You want to wish reality away?
Yet, we've never seen species being poofed into existence.
Now, what to believe? Spooks or reality or some guy writing on the internet not knowing what a species is and missed hundreds of years of basic experiments in speciation?.... I'd go for the science and think that Dredge is not to be trusted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 274 of 443 (803983)
04-06-2017 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:
If you could wave a magic wand and remove from human consciousness the notion that species evolve from other species - evolution's core doctrine - it wouldn't make an iota of difference to anything pertaining to the real world. So the theory of evoltion isn't "essential" in ANY way, let alone "a myriad" of ways. It's as irrelevant as a fairy tale.
I said essential to our understanding. Evolution is the central unifying concept of biology. For one example of practical utility, evolutionary concepts allow us to track and predict which strain of flu will dominate each flu season, so that flu vaccines tuned to the right virus can be produced months in advance. For another example, understanding descent and mutations allows us to track ancient human migration patterns around the globe. For yet another example, evolutionary concepts drive new design approaches where constructions "evolve" toward a final design.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by Dredge, posted 04-07-2017 5:55 PM Percy has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9489
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 275 of 443 (803988)
04-06-2017 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:
The only "use" the theory of evolution has in atheist theology, where it may well be "essential" as a means to become, as Dawkins put it, "intellectually fulfilled".
Well that's just wrong, a simple google would put you straight on it if you were really interested. But you're not are you?
And of course it *is* essential intellectually; it's another massive step forward in the understanding of our universe. It's what people do, find out how stuff works. It's how we progress as a culture. Your crass complaint that it's useless to study how things are would have us ignore the stars, the weather, the earth.
How would you have built your cathedrals without uselessly asking how things work? How would you have posted your stupidity onto this board? Who are you to say which bits of knowledge should be studied and which bits shouldn't? Which bits are useful and which bits aren't?
'Atheist theology' indeed. You pompous ignoramus.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.
"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Dredge, posted 04-07-2017 5:50 PM Tangle has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 276 of 443 (803991)
04-06-2017 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


Yet the fact remains that Christians oppose Creationism
Drudge writes:
The only "use" the theory of evolution has in atheist theology, where it may well be "essential" as a means to become, as Dawkins put it, "intellectually fulfilled".
Yet again you are simply showing your utter ignorance. All of the major Christian sects oppose the nonsense that is Creationism and Intelligent design as well as the attempts to try to pretend either is science.
It is not simply atheists that support both the fact of evolution and the Theory of Evolution as the only explanation for what is seen in reality.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by Dredge, posted 04-07-2017 5:35 PM jar has replied
 Message 334 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 4:34 PM jar has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 277 of 443 (804004)
04-06-2017 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


Dredge writes:
If you could wave a magic wand and remove from human consciousness the notion that species evolve from other species....
It would seep back in again pretty quickly. You can't look out the window without seeing reality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by Dredge, posted 04-06-2017 6:44 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2328 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 278 of 443 (804077)
04-06-2017 11:42 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Dr Adequate
01-02-2012 4:53 PM


Can an evolutionist or luck and chance specialist tell us how the whales
spout got on the top of its head. IE, did it move slowly to the top, or did a miraculously mutated whale finally mutate in one go, and have the spout just happen to get in the absolute right spot.
I know, artists pics and all, and supposed closeness of fish and dinosaurs, even though whales just happen to be mammals and have live births. Darn whales are miraculous Ehhh?
So do tell us how the whales evolved ? Slow sequential partial mutations, or one giant leap out of the water mutation where all features made them mamalian with nice spouts nicely situated on the tops of their heads.
Were the mutations fast or slow ?
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
Evolution is not science and is pure religion, forced upon the young to ensure their faith in luck and chance rather than mathematics and design.
The Lord created science and all things. Laws did not create themselves. Nothing happened by chance and accident.

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 Message 3 by Dr Adequate, posted 01-02-2012 4:53 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(1)
Message 279 of 443 (804097)
04-07-2017 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Davidjay
04-06-2017 11:42 PM


Davidjay writes:
Can an evolutionist or luck and chance specialist tell us how the whales
spout got on the top of its head. IE, did it move slowly to the top, or did a miraculously mutated whale finally mutate in one go, and have the spout just happen to get in the absolute right spot.
I know, artists pics and all, and supposed closeness of fish and dinosaurs, even though whales just happen to be mammals and have live births. Darn whales are miraculous Ehhh?
So do tell us how the whales evolved ? Slow sequential partial mutations, or one giant leap out of the water mutation where all features made them mamalian with nice spouts nicely situated on the tops of their heads.
Were the mutations fast or slow ?
Were whales in the ark?
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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 Message 278 by Davidjay, posted 04-06-2017 11:42 PM Davidjay has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 22388
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 280 of 443 (804106)
04-07-2017 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Davidjay
04-06-2017 11:42 PM


The evolutionary change that moved the whale nose from the tip of the snout to the top of the head is thought to have occurred gradually over millions of years. One source of evidence is whale embryology, where during development the nose originally develops at the tip of the snout, then gradually moves to the top of the head. Fossils are another source of evidence, found this here:
These are Pakicetus (50 million years ago), Rodhocetus (45 mya) and modern whales.
Here's a brief Richard Dawkins video on whale evolution that shows the positioning of blowholes on fossils beginning around the 1 minute mark:
--Percy

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 281 of 443 (804114)
04-07-2017 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Davidjay
04-06-2017 11:42 PM


So, Davidjay. Any scientific evidence that whales were poofed into existence?

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 Message 278 by Davidjay, posted 04-06-2017 11:42 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 282 of 443 (804163)
04-07-2017 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by Dredge
04-06-2017 6:44 AM


If you could wave a magic wand and remove from human consciousness the notion that species evolve from other species - evolution's core doctrine - it wouldn't make an iota of difference to anything pertaining to the real world.
Interesting lie. Why did you tell it?
I will not say the same of creationism: if you erased that, it would certainly make a difference. Kent Hovind would have to find a new source of income, and a number of drooling morons would have to find new ways to humiliate themselves on the internet.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 283 of 443 (804164)
04-07-2017 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by Pressie
04-07-2017 7:31 AM


Were whales in the ark?
Obviously. The Bible says that Noah took specimens of "every living thing that hath breath". They are non-kosher, so only two of each kind of whale.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 284 of 443 (804170)
04-07-2017 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by jar
04-06-2017 9:31 AM


Re: Yet the fact remains that Christians oppose Creationism
Can you point out where I said Creationism is science, please. And I've never mentioned Intelligent Design.
-------------------------
You have not taken into account the fact that many Christian denominations have become spiritually corrupt, so it's to be expected that many will fall away from the truth - it's actually a prophesy (which you would no doubt be aware of, since you are a Bible expert).
And as that old saying goes ... You can't fool all of the people all of the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by jar, posted 04-06-2017 9:31 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 286 by jar, posted 04-07-2017 5:54 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-07-2017 7:55 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 285 of 443 (804173)
04-07-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Tangle
04-06-2017 9:11 AM


Despite much googling I've been unable to find a practical use for the theory of evolution. So maybe you can help me out by citing an example.
-------------------
Contrary to your claim, I never said it's useless to study how things are. It seems that you are talking nonsense.
---------------------
Thinking you know how the universe works doesn't mean you are correct. That is to say, the theory of evolution could be wrong, just as the theory of a flat earth was wrong.
Star Trek has contributed more to science than the theory of evolution, which, in my opinion, is nothing more than a pseudo-scientific creation story for atheists - not to mention, the greatest hoax in history. The theory of evolution doesn't even belong in science, since it can't be put to the test.
------------------------
"... you pompous ignoramus" - wow, you are obviously head-over-heels in love with your atheist theology ... so protective!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Tangle, posted 04-06-2017 9:11 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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