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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 239 of 423 (799304)
02-09-2017 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 238 by PaulK
02-06-2017 2:34 PM


Re: Aberration Period
I have heard that once the other major powers trade in any means besides dollars,up to ten trillion dollars will flood our economy and cause extreme inflation.
I also heard that plans are already being discussed to replace the dollar. Could this be after a major correction? I know i would be very angry if most of our money was devalued. You don't piss the most powerful military on earth off by bankrupting their economy!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by PaulK, posted 02-06-2017 2:34 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by PaulK, posted 02-09-2017 3:31 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 245 of 423 (799553)
02-11-2017 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by caffeine
02-10-2017 9:52 AM


Re: Aberration Period
Crashfrog was right, though. The pundits are now saying that real interest rates will actually go negative...which means checkmate for the financial markets. The game is up...the Fed is out of tools.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by caffeine, posted 02-10-2017 9:52 AM caffeine has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Theodoric, posted 02-11-2017 10:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 248 by Diomedes, posted 02-13-2017 10:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2017 10:04 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 247 of 423 (799685)
02-13-2017 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Percy
10-07-2010 7:55 AM


Fast Forward
I wonder how large the "pool of money" is now?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Percy, posted 10-07-2010 7:55 AM Percy has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 249 of 423 (800187)
02-20-2017 4:15 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by jar
10-06-2010 6:11 PM


Twenty years after the Aberration Period
jar writes:
The Aberration was that period after WWII when the productivity of almost ever developed nation except the US had been destroyed.
For a period of almost fifty years the US had a significant advantage; even the very materials to rebuild the infrastructure of Japan, Korea and western Europe came from the US. In addition, the political regimes in the Soviet Union and its satellites and in China held those peoples back.
The one real industrial power in the world was the US and no other nation really competed.
But that had not always been the case. Japan, Germany, Italy, France and in particular the British Empire had been equal competitors before WWII, and in many ways maybe even more advanced then the US.
Il Donald has promised to make the trains run on time...but in this global age of competition, is it possible that his abrasive demanding style will alienate foreign governments to the point that they will simply cease doing business with the US entirely and start trading more with each other? Trump really scares me. I fear he could possible damage our nations standing in the world and isolate us from them.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Whoever trusts in his own mind is a fool, but he who walks in wisdom will be delivered.~Proverbs 28:26

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by jar, posted 10-06-2010 6:11 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by jar, posted 02-20-2017 4:28 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 251 by ringo, posted 02-21-2017 11:30 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 252 by caffeine, posted 02-21-2017 1:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 258 of 423 (803756)
04-04-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by crashfrog
04-03-2017 10:04 PM


Re: Aberration Period
I used to believe the gold bugs and the predictions that they had for the economy. Now, I'll honestly admit I have no clue what will happen except that I now know (or at least believe) that debt is part of the whole game. The Fed seems to think they can control things, but I'm not convinced that inflation may not yet make a return.
How have you been, crashfrog? I'm glad you stopped by! Yes, you told me so....and maybe you have a prediction for the next five years.....
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2017 10:04 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 259 of 423 (804420)
04-09-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
10-07-2010 8:02 AM


Re: The American Mindset
Does anyone have an opinion on the probability that this debt will
1) Ever be repaid?
2) Need to be repaid or refinanced?
3)Is harmful for future growth?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-07-2010 8:02 AM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by 14174dm, posted 04-09-2017 2:12 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 2:19 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 262 of 423 (804442)
04-09-2017 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
04-09-2017 2:19 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Don't we the people have a say in all this? Is there a difference ideologically between how conservatives in general view the debt vs moderate/liberals in general?
Does one group profit more from the debt itself while the other group needs the government services more?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 2:19 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 3:17 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 265 of 423 (816521)
08-05-2017 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
12-08-2011 10:22 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
2011 Phat writes:
...These corporations are ruthless. One is either a stockholder/executive/management team or one is a serf.(labor)
And the US middle class is being trashed. It is one of the events that will, in my opinion, lead to World War III.
In retrospect, what I described did contribute to the election of Donald Trump, which may yet lead to World War III.
Much of his support base came from a hollowed out, angry middle class that was being forced into becoming a lower working class.
As for the implications regarding the future of money, I believe that several factors will play into the next great correction in our economy.
One pundit predicts a "A 50% Stock Market Crash ... a 40% Real Estate Meltdown, and 25% Unemployment ".
Even though he is selling his newslatter, his logic seems sound.
Stocks are again overvalued and yet market participation is minimal. The corporations themselves are borrowing money to buy their own stocks and raise the value.
Debt is an ever present concern.
Greed is at an all time high.
43 trillion dollars is riding on an active working force of baby boomers. When they retire, they will no longer contribute as much to taxes and the economy but will instead expect payouts such as social security.
Does anyone have reason for optimism in the face of such logic?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 12-08-2011 10:22 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 08-08-2017 12:35 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 266 of 423 (816524)
08-05-2017 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by ringo
04-09-2017 3:17 PM


Re: The American Mindset
ringo writes:
This is an over-simplification but: Right-wingers tend to see government like a business whereas left-wingers see it more like a family.
In a business you're only concerned about the bottom line. If you're not making (enough) money, you can just shut the business down and go elsewhere.
In a family you do what needs doing, no matter what it costs. If you have to run up a crippling debt to get healthcare for the kids, you do it. You can't escape family.
OK, so Trump tries to run the country like a business, correct? So if the debt ends up becoming unsustainable, won't he simply pull the plug and allow the system to crash so that we can all start over with a new system? After all, Republicans always want the darn public to pay the debt rather than the wealthy.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 3:17 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 08-05-2017 3:42 PM Phat has replied
 Message 271 by ringo, posted 08-08-2017 12:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 268 of 423 (816538)
08-05-2017 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
08-05-2017 3:42 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Also note this quote from Trumps book, The Art Of The Deal
In one section, he imagines how he would have responded to a hostile takeover attempt that played out in a different company.
"I'm not saying I would also have won, but if I went down, it would have been kicking and screaming," he wrote. "I would have closed the hotel and let it rot. That's just my makeup. I fight when I feel I'm getting screwed, even if it's costly and difficult and highly risky."
Would this be what he would do to our country?
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 08-05-2017 3:42 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 7:13 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 270 of 423 (816578)
08-06-2017 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by jar
08-06-2017 7:13 AM


Re: The American Mindset
I dont see him leaving in the physical sense, though he likely has adequate assets to do so.I see him being stubborn as his ideas and obsessions get rejected by the political system and he finds himself a man with no platform.
He may become stubborn and even go so far as to start a war simply to have some sort of legacy.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 7:13 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 273 of 423 (816708)
08-09-2017 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 272 by ringo
08-08-2017 12:35 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Thats also part of the problem. The working class has a sour grapes jealousy over the success of some of their neighbors and sabotages any efforts of one of their own to do better than them. You really need to encourage a prosperous middle class rather than keep them down.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 08-08-2017 12:35 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 11:44 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 275 of 423 (816747)
08-10-2017 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 274 by ringo
08-10-2017 11:44 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
ringo writes:
What's wrong with encouraging a prosperous working class? Why make the working class something to escape from?
Is it possible to do both? After World War II, with the rise of trade unions, some members actually were able to save money, raise a family, and own their own house...truly the beginning of a middle-class lifestyle. Now, we have promises from politicians to create more jobs...but these jobs are either entry level minimum wage jobs or they are highly skilled jobs that ---perhaps---Trump was trying to encourage in his recent legal immigration speech. The $30,000.00+ middle-class jobs are disappearing.
I have nothing against helping a working class get ahead, but I am afraid that the middle class is disappearing and that this is not a healthy thing.
Perhaps our evolved idea of the American Dream was unrealistic all along...I dunno.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 274 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 11:44 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 12:59 PM Phat has replied
 Message 278 by Taq, posted 08-10-2017 1:14 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 277 of 423 (816749)
08-10-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 276 by ringo
08-10-2017 12:59 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Must it be a competitive thing? Between two classes? I never mentioned suppressing the working class. All I wondered was why the middle class had to be hollowed out.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 12:59 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 1:15 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 280 of 423 (816754)
08-10-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 279 by ringo
08-10-2017 1:15 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
ringo writes:
Instead of propping up the middle class, like you want to do, why not just lift up the working class until they're almost middle class? Why not raise the middle by lifting the bottom?
Because in the meantime, I am suffering by working harder for less while waiting for the pack to catch up. At 57 years old, I can't very well put my retirement on hold simply to lift the poor downtrodden masses up. I don't see many other options, however. Both the working class and the diminishing middle class have more in common with each other than we do with the upper class.
RUNNING IN PLACE: WHERE THE MIDDLE CLASS AND THE POOR MEET
quote:
Many of the same policies that can help the working poor climb into the middle class - investments in education, in the creation of good jobs, and in asset building, for example - can also strengthen middle-class financial security.
So I'll go with your theory that raising the working class helps me also. The issue is time. Im nearing retirement. How long must I wait?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 279 by ringo, posted 08-10-2017 1:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Taq, posted 08-10-2017 2:34 PM Phat has replied
 Message 285 by ringo, posted 08-11-2017 11:48 AM Phat has not replied

  
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