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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 251 of 423 (800241)
02-21-2017 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Phat
02-20-2017 4:15 PM


Re: Twenty years after the Aberration Period
Phat writes:
Trump really scares me. I fear he could possible damage our nations standing in the world and isolate us from them.
When you elect a cartoon character as President, you don't get much respect.
I expect that most nations will work around Trump as much as possible. It doesn't look like he really wants to DO anything anyway. He prefers to bluster about what he's going to do and then brag about what he did, with no substance between. The substance will be handled by more sensible people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Phat, posted 02-20-2017 4:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 261 of 423 (804434)
04-09-2017 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
04-09-2017 11:56 AM


Re: The American Mindset
Generally speaking, lenders are more interested in having a constant income stream from the vigorish interest than in having the principal repaid.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 11:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 3:01 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 263 of 423 (804444)
04-09-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Phat
04-09-2017 3:01 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Phat writes:
Is there a difference ideologically between how conservatives in general view the debt vs moderate/liberals in general?
This is an over-simplification but: Right-wingers tend to see government like a business whereas left-wingers see it more like a family.
In a business you're only concerned about the bottom line. If you're not making (enough) money, you can just shut the business down and go elsewhere.
In a family you do what needs doing, no matter what it costs. If you have to run up a crippling debt to get healthcare for the kids, you do it. You can't escape family.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 3:01 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 271 of 423 (816628)
08-08-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
08-05-2017 2:31 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Phat writes:
OK, so Trump tries to run the country like a business, correct?
Well, that's what Republicans do, and Democrats too, for the most part. But what Trump is doing is more like playing a video game by yelling at PacMan.
Phat writes:
So if the debt ends up becoming unsustainable, won't he simply pull the plug and allow the system to crash so that we can all start over with a new system?
How would that work with a nation? If the system crashes, what does that entail? How do you "start over"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 272 of 423 (816629)
08-08-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Phat
08-05-2017 2:11 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
Much of his support base came from a hollowed out, angry middle class that was being forced into becoming a lower working class.
And the working class said, "Boo hoo."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 2:11 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 08-09-2017 5:25 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 274 of 423 (816744)
08-10-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 273 by Phat
08-09-2017 5:25 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
The working class has a sour grapes jealousy over the success of some of their neighbors and sabotages any efforts of one of their own to do better than them.
That's a typical capitalist attitude: Bill Gates works harder than you do; all you have to do is work a million times harder and you'll be as rich as Bill Gates.
Phat writes:
You really need to encourage a prosperous middle class rather than keep them down.
What's wrong with encouraging a prosperous working class? Why make the working class something to escape from?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 273 by Phat, posted 08-09-2017 5:25 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 12:52 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 276 of 423 (816748)
08-10-2017 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 275 by Phat
08-10-2017 12:52 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
I have nothing against helping a working class get ahead, but I am afraid that the middle class is disappearing and that this is not a healthy thing.
You haven't said why a disappearing middle class is not a healthy thing. Why is stepping on the working class "healthier" than raising them up?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 275 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 12:52 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 279 of 423 (816751)
08-10-2017 1:15 PM
Reply to: Message 277 by Phat
08-10-2017 1:04 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Phat writes:
Must it be a competitive thing? Between two classes?
That's what I'm asking you. Who is "hollowing out" the middle class?
Phat writes:
I never mentioned suppressing the working class.
How else can the middle class "get ahead"?
Instead of propping up the middle class, like you want to do, why not just lift up the working class until they're almost middle class? Why not raise the middle by lifting the bottom?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 277 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 1:04 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 2:26 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 285 of 423 (816789)
08-11-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 280 by Phat
08-10-2017 2:26 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
quote:
Many of the same policies that can help the working poor climb into the middle class - investments in education, in the creation of good jobs, and in asset building, for example - can also strengthen middle-class financial security.
I disagree with a lot of things in that statement:
  • Helping people "climb into the middle class" is a bad idea. Is everybody supposed to "climb into the middle class" and leave the working class empty?
  • Creating "good" jobs is a bad idea. Why not make the bad jobs better?
  • There's no such thing as "financial security". People making payments on a million-dollar house are as close to being on the street as people paying $500 rent.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 280 by Phat, posted 08-10-2017 2:26 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:07 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 286 of 423 (816790)
08-11-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Taq
08-10-2017 2:34 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Taq writes:
It would appear to me that it is the top 1% that need to contribute to the working class, not the middle class.
That's the attitude that got us into this situation: The other guy should pay.
It doesn't work. The 1% have more resources to avoid paying their share. And one of their main tactics is to turn the working class and the middle class against each other. They pay the politicians to "create good jobs" and at the same time to keep wages low and working conditions poor.
Personally, I would rather pay the taxes myself and let the 1% keep all they can grasp.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Taq, posted 08-10-2017 2:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 293 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 1:02 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 288 of 423 (816796)
08-11-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 287 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2017 12:07 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New cat's Eye writes:
My salary has increased substantially but I kept my bills the same - I'm financially secure.
What if you got sick and couldn't work?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 287 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:07 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 290 of 423 (816799)
08-11-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 289 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
New cat's Eye writes:
Savings and disability. That'd last until my inheritance.
We don't all have an inheritance.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 289 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:15 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:20 PM ringo has replied
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 08-11-2017 3:53 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 292 of 423 (816803)
08-11-2017 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 291 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2017 12:20 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
People can be financially secure.
But most people aren't. I'll rephrase: There is no such thing as financial security for most people.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:20 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 294 of 423 (816807)
08-11-2017 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by Taq
08-11-2017 1:02 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Taq writes:
How does that attitude result in the largest economic inequality seen in decades?
Never mind how large the economic inequity is. There has always been economic inequity and the attitude has always been: let the people with the most money pay. Instead, why not give the money to the people who work for it so they can afford to pay?
Taq writes:
ringo writes:
Personally, I would rather pay the taxes myself and let the 1% keep all they can grasp.
Why?
Because I'm a responsible citizen. I'll gladly pay for the services I use - and I could pay more if I was paid fairly for what I contribute. Why would I want to be beholden to some rich goober?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 293 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 1:02 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 295 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 3:21 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 298 of 423 (816868)
08-12-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Taq
08-11-2017 3:21 PM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
Taq writes:
How does pushing for more economic equality result in more inequity?
But you're not pushing for more economic equality. Your pushing, it seems, a version of trickle-down economics where you inject money at the middle instead of at the top. You seem to be touting the status quo, which has escape from the working class as the only option for the working class.
Taq writes:
Why not raise the minimum wage so that people can actually live off of it? Why not increase subsidies for health care so that the working class isn't pouring such a large percentage of their income into health care?
That's what I'm saying.
Taq writes:
According to you, pushing for these things will only make economically inequality worse. Why?
I'm saying that propping up the middle class makes the working class worse off - because those things are not being done for the working class.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 3:21 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 301 by Phat, posted 08-14-2017 3:19 AM ringo has replied

  
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