Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
2 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 0/13 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Addiction By Definition
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 331 (797183)
01-13-2017 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by caffeine
01-13-2017 4:58 PM


Re: Religious addiction?
It strikes me that an intelligent person can manage many kinds of addiction such that it does not noticeably interfere with their daily lives; whilst still being addicted.
It's okay if you define addiction as you have. But your argument is circular. If in fact, addiction is defined as an unmanageable habit, then folks that feel some compulsion to indulge in a non-harmful behavior, like say chewing sugarless gum, would indeed be addicted. But if we harm as a component, then by definition, such chewers would not be addicted. It is of course the lexicographers choice as to what any word means.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by caffeine, posted 01-13-2017 4:58 PM caffeine has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-15-2017 9:29 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 331 (797235)
01-15-2017 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Phat
01-13-2017 1:05 PM


Re: Day 180
Today is day 180.
Not only that, but if you are still holding on, you can now call it six months! Nice!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 01-13-2017 1:05 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 143 of 331 (797241)
01-16-2017 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by New Cat's Eye
01-15-2017 9:29 PM


Re: Religious addiction?
I still don't get why you prefer the tautology that it's only an addiction when it causes life problems? How does that help?
Because we don't treat people for chewing sugarless gum for example? The other advantage, particularly when we are talking about alcohol or drug abuse is that patterns of destructive behavior are a lot more concrete a point than we get from comparing usage patterns, and a lot less deniable. In short, the harm causing aspect of addictions is an easily recognizable idea, and even someone who has a lower level of imbibing can be classified.
Look this is not my definition. For example, here is a definition of alcoholism from an article in JAMA from 1992.
301 Redirect
quote:
Alcoholism is a primary, chronic disease with genetic, psychosocial, and environmental factors influencing its development and manifestations. The disease is often progressive and fatal. It is characterized by continuous or periodic: impaired control over drinking, preoccupation with the drug alcohol, use of alcohol despite adverse consequences, and distortions in thinking, and most notably denial ."
Some folks throughout each week but manage to cut themselves off at a level that allows them to live with others in their house without abusing them and to go to work the next morning. Other folks cannot.
Some else already quoted a similar definition regarding drug dependency earlier in this thread.
ABE:
I'm totally addicted to nicotine and it's not causing any problems in my life, see Message 20.
We've been through this. I pointed out that tobacco does have health effects. To which you responded something like, "Oh I did not know you meant that." Of course, I did mean exactly that. I understand that you may be vaping now. I don't know if that has health effects.
In any event, my preferred definition is not circular. As I understand it, my definition is pretty much yours with an additional requirement that there be some harmful life consequence. My definition may be very open-ended, but it is not circular. I'd appreciate it if you could point out the circle in my definition.
ABE:
How so? The definition you prefer is the one that is circular. See Message 9 and the thread that follows. It ends at Message 41 where you stopped replying.
I did not say that his definition was circular. I said that his argument regarding why his definition was preferable was circular.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-15-2017 9:29 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Phat, posted 01-16-2017 7:10 AM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 145 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2017 9:48 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 331 (797349)
01-17-2017 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by New Cat's Eye
01-16-2017 9:48 AM


Re: Religious addiction?
ell, treatment is a strong word, but we should at least be willing to help instead of pretending it's a non-issue.
What do you think is the issue?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by New Cat's Eye, posted 01-16-2017 9:48 AM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Phat, posted 01-18-2017 11:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 331 (797360)
01-18-2017 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Phat
01-18-2017 11:19 AM


Re: Religious addiction?
Sugarless gum, for example, is nothing more than a habit.
I think you are right. But more to the point, I think chewing that gum is rightly something to be ignored. New Cat's Eye seems to think it is wrong to ignore the plight of folks who like to chew sugarless gum, but it was my intention to pick something that really was not a problem. The whole point to the example is that the habit was without any appreciable consequences; i. e. a non-issue. If he is right that we ought to worry about those folks, then I picked a bad example.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Phat, posted 01-18-2017 11:19 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:27 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 331 (797407)
01-20-2017 1:57 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Phat
01-19-2017 10:27 AM


Re: When is an addiction an addiction? (Day 186)
My point was that the consequences that determined whether a habit wass an addiction or not were entirely based on MRI technology.
Have we really connected all addictions to brain changes that can be revealed by an MRI scan? If so your definition is fine.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Phat, posted 01-19-2017 10:27 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 01-20-2017 6:45 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 154 of 331 (797484)
01-22-2017 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
01-21-2017 12:15 PM


Re: Irrationality and Addiction Day 188
Has anyone noticed that as my brain is healing from my addiction, my irrational beliefs seem to have taken on a temporary emotional obsession
Actually, you have seemed to me to be more rational as of late.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 01-21-2017 12:15 PM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 176 of 331 (804445)
04-09-2017 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Phat
04-09-2017 12:08 PM


Re: Day 266-Still Healing
But then again, why must I be so negative? I dare yet have faith and hope in a better future.
Well said. It's about time to start counting months rather than days. You are just short of 9 months...
am taking care of my 93-year-old mother who just had a mini stroke two days ago
You are blessed that your mother is still with you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 12:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 179 of 331 (808929)
05-15-2017 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by Phat
05-13-2017 7:38 AM


Re: Day 300 has arrived!
I am noticing subtle changes in my emotional thought process as well as honesty towards logic
I've certainly noticed that your thought processes are more rational, and I'll bet others have as well. I've never really though you were lacking in honesty.
It's always good to hear about your progress. Keep on living!
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Phat, posted 05-13-2017 7:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 183 of 331 (811704)
06-10-2017 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 180 by Phat
06-10-2017 5:24 PM


Re: Day 328. Staring In The Mirror
What concerns me is that my current arguments are not even as good as these were in the two threads. I seem to be mentally relapsing.
I don't think that's a great assumption. Only a few folks manage to generate pearls with every post. You are setting an impossible standard for yourself. FWIW, I've noticed a couple of very insightful recent posts of yours. You are probably judging yourself too harshly, something that comes with thinking critically, and with introspection. Those are good things.
You are nearing 11 months of success. I am sure there will be some mental ups and downs. But that level of success is nothing to sneeze at.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 180 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 5:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 186 of 331 (811871)
06-13-2017 1:06 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by New Cat's Eye
06-12-2017 9:31 AM


Re: Day 328. Staring In The Mirror
It's way better than my previous addiction (which will go unnamed).
You stopped smoking...

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-12-2017 9:31 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-13-2017 10:42 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 192 of 331 (811921)
06-13-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by New Cat's Eye
06-13-2017 10:42 AM


I'm still addicted to nicotine (and caffeine), but I'm not going to play the game where you try to guess my past addiction and then we go through the process of elimination.
Don't worry about that happening. I've taken the only shot that I have any reason to suspect, and it was more of a hope than a guess. Smoking tobacco killed my dad a few decades ago.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by New Cat's Eye, posted 06-13-2017 10:42 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 206 of 331 (815061)
07-15-2017 8:39 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Phat
07-14-2017 11:47 PM


Re: Day 362 Chip Night
You did not see me or hear me, but I gave you a "standing o" in front of my workstation.
Keep plugging bro!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 07-14-2017 11:47 PM Phat has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 212 of 331 (821883)
10-14-2017 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
10-13-2017 5:38 PM


Re: Relapse Blues
I dreaded writing this post, for I have (had) accomplished so much this past year and nearly everyone was cheering me on and congratulating my accomplishment.
I applaud your courage. You confessed this for a reason. The past year of sobriety is still yours and remains part of you. You are still a recovering gambler. Fighting from a relapse is also part of that.
I hope you don't let this relapse prevent you from starting again. Get a few days of freedom on your belt, then a week, etc. Get help if you need it. Take prescribed meds if you need them. Your thinking will clear up again.
likely won't post anymore until and unless I climb out of this quicksand and get at least 30 days in again. To be honest, at this point I don't even feel like fighting.
That's human. I'll bet we all understand how you feel, and I'll bet that more than one of has been there. You don't have to cut us off.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Phat, posted 10-13-2017 5:38 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 10-15-2017 1:47 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024