Summations Only

Well that's just wrong, a simple google would put you straight on it if you were really interested. But you're not are you?And of course it *is* essential intellectually; it's another massive step forward in the understanding of our universe. It's what people do, find out how stuff works. It's how we progress as a culture. Your crass complaint that it's useless to study how things are would have us ignore the stars, the weather, the earth.How would you have built your cathedrals without uselessly asking how things work? How would you have posted your stupidity onto this board? Who are you to say which bits of knowledge should be studied and which bits shouldn't? Which bits are useful and which bits aren't?'Atheist theology' indeed. You pompous ignoramus.

You've been given examples. You're not interested. Then your complaint is what exactly? Hey! You said something almost sensible. It could be wrong but it's now very highly unlikely to be wrong as everything we have discovered since Darwin has confirmed it. Flat earth was never a theory. At best it was a hypothesis. And guess how we found out it was round? Here's a clue, we didn't read it in the bible. Star Trek is pretty good at using scientific ideas for story telling. That's a bit different to doing science. Wrong. The biggest problem you have is in not knowing what the thing you rage against actually is, so you make yourself look like a blithering idiot just by starting to type. Why not learn what evolution is before telling lies about it. At least then you'd know when you were lying.

You're confused Faith. Evolution just tells us that species are not immutable. That disturbed some 19th century bible bashers but somehow morality remained unaffected. I am burdoned with a very large dose of it despite all of evolutionary science's attempts to knock it out of me.

1. It's practical value is in explaining how all life on earth works. It couldn't get more useful and important than that.2. It's second most practical use is in debunking childish mythologies.3. If it has no practical value, what the hell are you complaing about?

Somehow Western civilisation seems to be doing just fine with the knowledge. You wish. I'm pretty sure that deep down, you know it's true but just can't accept it.

Do you see how easy and how pointless saying stuff like that is? Evolutionists, or where I come from biologists, get to make the definition of evolution. Not you or your friends in the god-bothering business. There are several standard definitions - use them, stop imaging stuff and then lying about it. And I suppose dripping water into a cup never fills it either?Look, it wouldn't matter if there was no practical value whatsoever in knowing how species became what they are now. The acquisition of knowledge for its own sake has enormous value in our society.Your only complaint is that it accidentally trashes your book of myths. At least be honest about it.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

This is just drivel. There is nothing irrelevant to science except stupidity. Explaining how life 'arose' has enormous scientific value. How could it be otherwise, it's information about our world. More drivel. Knowledge needs no justification. So here is your real objection at last. Well at least you're correct on all those points so what on earth are you wailing at? All the discovery of evolution has done is overturn the primitive mythology in your book. That's all.

Gene mutation that causes phenotype change followed by selection which changes the population has been shown. That's the basic model for all evolutionary change demonstrated in real life today.

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Message 1 of 76 (785287)
Thursday, 02-06-2016 3:38 AM
After 15 years of analysis and experimentation the gene mutation that was responsible for the change in colour of the peppered moth from white to black has been found.
This is a really important conformation of the theory of evolution - it demonstrates not only the process of natural selection but also the role of beneficial, random, genetic mutation.

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The colour change wasn't simply the result of gene plasticity, the actual mutation that occurred in an individual has been located and dated (1819 +/- 10). The date puts it exactly where you would expect it - the height of the industrial revolution when everything was soot stained and black.

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Famous peppered moth's dark secret revealed - BBC News

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So we all the fossil evidence and now we have the mechanism that creates change in species observed.It's all there Faith, you can complain and twist and turn all you like, but it's all there.

The problem we have Faith, is that if we could sit you down in front of an experiment that showed a population of primeval cows slowly turn into a population of whales and you still wouldn't believe it.There is no amount of evidence that could shift your position. I wonder why we persist?

It's a fact, not a belief.Get your language straight. When talking about things that we accept but that are not supported by evidence we call them beliefs. When talking about things that we know to be true because they are supported by evidence they are called facts.It's an astounding discovery that all life is interelated and has a common ancestor. Knowledge that explains all life on earth is by definition of enormous scientific value. To think otherwise is just crass ignorance. You just confused knowledge with fantasy and lies. Knowledge is, by definition, known to be factually true."Knowledge: facts, information, and skills acquired through experience or education; the theoretical or practical understanding of a subject." It seems to me that it was you that confused belief in the tooth fairy with knowledge. Well, of course that statement is wrong. Beliefs are overturned by other unevidenced beliefs all the time. How else are converts made? But scientific knowledge is not belief, there is no necessity to believe in facts - they are facts. Well, that is your wish. Unfortunately for you scientific knowledge is backed by evidence. Feel free to study it so that you'll at least understand what it is that you are disagreeing with. I mean, you didn't even know what speciation was, whilst claiming that it couldn't happen. That's like not knowing that the internal combustion engine runs on gasoline whilst telling the engineer he's wrong about why your car isn't working. Your ignorance is telling.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Give you one what? Your demand is absurd.Do you make the same demand of those that searched for decades for the Higgs boson? Are quarks and new life forms in undersea hot vents not worth discovering? Why are you so concerned about evolution out of all of the natural sciences? Why does it matter so much to you that biology has made this discovery? Why are you not complaining about the recent discovery that memories are duplicated not stored in short term then moved to long term storage in different parts of the brain. Why just this particular bit of science.Is it simply because it disturbs your personal belief?Knowledge has it's own value. Knowledge displaces ignorance. We once thought that life was immutable, put in place as we see it now whole and unchangeable. Now we know that to be false. Life is capable of change - species evolve. That's knowledge. That's science. That's information we didn't have. That's worth having simply because it's true. It advances knowledge. In the end mankind is the sum of it's knowledge. We are named Homo sapiens for a reason and the reason is that we reason.For your bumper sticker, 'reason is what we do'. Well, some of us at least.Knowing how the world works has to be one of the most important pieces of knowledge mankind can have.Now shut the fuck up or prove it wrong.Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.

Repeat....Message 163 of 179 (804865)
Thursday, 13-04-2017 9:56 PM Reply to: Message 150 by Dredge
Thursday, 13-04-2017 8:02 AM
Re: Evolutions have discovered no new laws.. NONEThis is a dozen years old now but maybe it'll stop you talking anymore nonsense on this particular issue. i draw your attention to point 9 in particular.
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Claim CA215:
The theory of evolution is useless, without practical application.
Response:1.Evolutionary theory is the framework tying together all of biology. It explains similarities and differences between organisms, fossils, biogeography, drug resistance, extreme features such as the peacock's tail, relative virulence of parasites, and much more besides. Without the theory of evolution, it would still be possible to know much about biology, but not to understand it.This explanatory framework is useful in a practical sense. First, a unified theory is easier to learn, because the facts connect together rather than being so many isolated bits of trivia. Second, having a theory makes it possible to see gaps in the theory, suggesting productive areas for new research.2.Evolutionary theory has been put to practical use in several areas (Futuyma 1995; Bull and Wichman 2001). For example:
Bioinformatics, a multi-billion-dollar industry, consists largely of the comparison of genetic sequences. Descent with modification is one of its most basic assumptions.
Diseases and pests evolve resistance to the drugs and pesticides we use against them. Evolutionary theory is used in the field of resistance management in both medicine and agriculture (Bull and Wichman 2001).
Evolutionary theory is used to manage fisheries for greater yields (Conover and Munch 2002).
Artificial selection has been used since prehistory, but it has become much more efficient with the addition of quantitative trait locus mapping.
Knowledge of the evolution of parasite virulence in human populations can help guide public health policy (Galvani 2003).
Sex allocation theory, based on evolution theory, was used to predict conditions under which the highly endangered kakapo bird would produce more female offspring, which retrieved it from the brink of extinction (Sutherland 2002).Evolutionary theory is being applied to and has potential applications in may other areas, from evaluating the threats of genetically modified crops to human psychology. Additional applications are sure to come.3.Phylogenetic analysis, which uses the evolutionary principle of common descent, has proven its usefulness:
Tracing genes of known function and comparing how they are related to unknown genes helps one to predict unknown gene function, which is foundational for drug discovery (Branca 2002; Eisen and Wu 2002; Searls 2003).
Phylogenetic analysis is a standard part of epidemiology, since it allows the identification of disease reservoirs and sometimes the tracking of step-by-step transmission of disease. For example, phylogenetic analysis confirmed that a Florida dentist was infecting his patients with HIV, that HIV-1 and HIV-2 were transmitted to humans from chimpanzees and mangabey monkeys in the twentieth century, and, when polio was being eradicated from the Americas, that new cases were not coming from hidden reservoirs (Bull and Wichman 2001). It was used in 2002 to help convict a man of intentionally infecting someone with HIV (Vogel 1998). The same principle can be used to trace the source of bioweapons (Cummings and Relman 2002).
Phylogenetic analysis to track the diversity of a pathogen can be used to select an appropriate vaccine for a particular region (Gaschen et al. 2002).
Ribotyping is a technique for identifying an organism or at least finding its closest known relative by mapping its ribosomal RNA onto the tree of life. It can be used even when the organisms cannot be cultured or recognized by other methods. Ribotyping and other genotyping methods have been used to find previously unknown infectious agents of human disease (Bull and Wichman 2001; Relman 1999).
Phylogenetic analysis helps in determining protein folds, since proteins diverging from a common ancestor tend to conserve their folds (Benner 2001).4.Directed evolution allows the "breeding" of molecules or molecular pathways to create or enhance products, including:
enzymes (Arnold 2001)
pigments (Arnold 2001)
antibiotics
flavors
biopolymers
bacterial strains to decompose hazardous materials.
Directed evolution can also be used to study the folding and function of natural enzymes (Taylor et al. 2001).5.The evolutionary principles of natural selection, variation, and recombination are the basis for genetic algorithms, an engineering technique that has many practical applications, including aerospace engineering, architecture, astrophysics, data mining, drug discovery and design, electrical engineering, finance, geophysics, materials engineering, military strategy, pattern recognition, robotics, scheduling, and systems engineering (Marczyk 2004).6. Tools developed for evolutionary science have been put to other uses. For example:
Many statistical techniques, including analysis of variance and linear regression, were developed by evolutionary biologists, especially Ronald Fisher and Karl Pearson. These statistical techniques have much wider application today.
The same techniques of phylogenetic analysis developed for biology can also trace the history of multiple copies of a manuscript (Barbrook et al. 1998; Howe et al. 2001) and the history of languages (Dunn et al. 2005).7. Good science need not have any application beyond satisfying curiosity. Much of astronomy, geology, paleontology, natural history, and other sciences have no practical application. For many people, knowledge is a worthy end in itself.8. Science with little or no application now may find application in the future, especially as the field matures and our knowledge of it becomes more complete. Practical applications are often built upon ideas that did not look applicable originally. Furthermore, advances in one area of science can help illuminate other areas. Evolution provides a framework for biology, a framework which can support other useful biological advances.9. Anti-evolutionary ideas have been around for millennia and have not yet contributed anything with any practical application.A few posts ago you also claimed that beneficial mutations are impossible. I gave you the recent example of the Peppered Moth's beneficial gene mutation. Are you now content?

Darwin proposed the idea that species were not immutable before he knew the mechanism for how they could change. The ToE was developed mostly from fossil evidence.Mutations are now part of story, they show how such change can happen - we now have modern day, observation based evidence of one of the mechanisms for change. Unfortunate for you though it is. Embryology shows how organisms develop from the first cells. It's provides an analogy for how life may have evolved. The fact that wale embryos develop limbs that are subsequently reabsorbed is further evidence of the origins of these species. What is your explanation?This evidence does not rely on Haeckel. You really need to progress beyond the 19th century.

If by 'they' you mean scientists, then no they don't. This is just ill-informed chatter. People who haven't studied the ToE have all sorts of misconceptions about it as you prove with every post. This is just another one.

In the last few weeks I've learnt yet again that you can't have a sane discussion with people that are simply irrational.I'm wondering why this is such a hard thing to stay learned.