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Author Topic:   The TRVE history of the Flood...
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 100 of 1352 (804457)
04-09-2017 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by Dredge
04-09-2017 5:29 PM


So I've learnt to trust only applied science. If I reject "science" that has no practical use, what am I missing out on? Nothing!
Translation: I will take antibiotics, but I don't really give a crap where they come from.
Isn't it great that you can be completely ignorant and still benefit from science? Here is another thing you can do. You can reject all of the science of geology and still ride around in a car powered by petroleum.
After all, what have you lost? It's not like you have to duplicate scientific feats for yourself. Some scientist or engineer can do that for you.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 99 by Dredge, posted 04-09-2017 5:29 PM Dredge has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 159 of 1352 (805031)
04-15-2017 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Dr Adequate
04-15-2017 1:33 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
OK, how will he make a fool of himself next?
Perhaps with topics like this one?
quote:
Evolution is a racist doctrine

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-15-2017 1:33 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 180 of 1352 (805392)
04-18-2017 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
04-17-2017 2:48 AM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
. In fact the rocks and caves where they are painted are certainly the product of the Flood.
Certainly? Based on what evidence? The same evidence used for your grand canyon suppositions? Best summed up as "Well it looks like that to me"
The dates are established based on evidence that you have no way to refute.
Also, Stonehenge and the pyramids are older than the flood? Incidentally, the pyramids are never even mentioned in the Bible. All dated via multiple methods.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Faith, posted 04-17-2017 2:48 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Coyote, posted 04-18-2017 11:35 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied
 Message 184 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 11:51 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 217 of 1352 (805444)
04-18-2017 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:22 PM


Re: On "opinions"
But there is nothing IN the past to verify your theory of the isotopes.
Actually, it does turn out that there is evidence of what decay rates were in the past. SN1987 for example gives us current visual evidence of what decay rates were 160,000 years ago. Polonium halo rings tell us about decay rates millions of years ago. Either of those data points is long enough ago to provide evidence of the constancy of decay rates over a period well in excess of the mere 10,000 years needed to discredit flood dates and a Creation week of the type that you insist on.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:22 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:18 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 242 of 1352 (805487)
04-18-2017 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Faith
04-18-2017 4:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
The point is, as long as you have no way of actually seeing into the past,
That's wrong. Every telescope looking into the distant sky is actually looking at the past and not the present. When you look at the sun, you see it as it appeared 8 minutes ago. When you look at Saturn, you see it as it looked 80 minutes ago.
We can actually see the past right now. When we look at SN 1987, we see it as it was 168,000 years ago.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 4:18 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 10:35 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 245 of 1352 (805490)
04-18-2017 10:48 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
04-18-2017 10:35 PM


Re: On "opinions"
Yes, astronomy has the means to verify its theories, as I thought I said. The telescope. Space travel. None of the sciences of earth's history have such means.
But I'm mot sure the timing is verified. Same problem as dating methods for earth.
The timing is verified in a number of ways. Check out the articles on SN1987 to see exactly how. Observations of SN1987 verify the constancy of the speed of light, confirm the previously measured distance from earth using completely independent means of measurement, and confirm the half life of radioactive nuclei.
Except the Bible is a way to look into earth's past.
Except that the Bible is absolutely silent on what happened at the site of the grand canyon.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 10:35 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 10:52 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 256 of 1352 (805502)
04-18-2017 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
04-18-2017 11:18 PM


Re: On "opinions"
No it isn't. The viewer through the telescope becomes a direct witness.
The point is that by looking through the telescope, we can directly witness the fact that radioactive decay is at the same rate as today, that stars operate using the same processes that we do today.
By contrast there is zero evidence that decay rates were different in the past.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 11:18 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 259 of 1352 (805505)
04-19-2017 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 258 by Dr Adequate
04-19-2017 12:02 AM


Re: "Bible Study" topic, not a science topic
Science is off topic, but non scientific extrapolations only loosely tied to what is actual described in the Bible are on topic and cannot be rebutted by facts? How odd.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 258 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-19-2017 12:02 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by Adminnemooseus, posted 04-19-2017 12:24 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 280 of 1352 (805589)
04-19-2017 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Faith
04-18-2017 11:50 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
There is a pronounced uplift illustrated on the cross sections but it doesn't seem to be extensive enough to be the Colorado Plateau. However, maybe that's what it is. In any case yes I think the uplifted land is the reason for the canyon, for the breaking up of the higher strata, for the cracks that admitted the water, etc.
All of which is extremely non-Biblical. The only thing the Bible tells us about the force of the Flood is that the rising of the water was extremely, and likely supernaturally gentle. With regards to the receding of the flood waters, that too was apparently gentle as folks on the boat did not report any undue effects.
Further, for all we know, the grand canyon itself predates the flood. Nobody on the planet witnessed anything that happened on this continent, or on 5 of the other continents we currently know about.
So what you are actually posting here is speculation that does not agree with the facts and detail that can be observed regarding the canyon. We know this because when you point us at the GC, you get upset when we look too closely.
Perhaps you should stick to the story as told in the Bible.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 11:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(4)
Message 294 of 1352 (805632)
04-19-2017 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 281 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:30 PM


Re: the idea of more than one biblical flood is what's silly, AND the date of course
The Bible doesn't say much at all to allow us to conclude just how quiet it was or wasn't.
I would suggest that we can draw some conclusions, but let's take your statements at face value. If we cannot conclude anything about the force of the Flood, when you talk about carving the Grand Canyon in less than one year, by your own admission, you are speculating well beyond the words of the Bible. When you claim that some caves in France and Spain were carved by the Flood without citing a single geological feature, and without any description whatsoever of what France or Spain looked like before the flood, you are talking even more trash.
Yes, I understand that you can draw some stuff from the Bible and extrapolate, but given that when talking about regions of the world well outside of the middle east, on which the Bible is utterly silent regarding the pre-flood terrain, you are not extrapolating at all. You are simply making up stuff out of whole cloth based merely on the Bible saying there was a flood.
If this is a Bible study forum in which real science is off topic, then certainly made up BS, commonly know as Creation Science, particularly the stuff you make up on your own, isn't really germane either. You ought at least to point to some commentary etc.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:30 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:42 PM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 295 of 1352 (805633)
04-19-2017 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
04-19-2017 1:17 AM


Re: On "opinions"
It ought to be unarguable that a written document describing events in the past, that has lots of agreement from account to account, gives clues to how to date the events, mentions historical real-world kings and leaders that can be tracked extrabiblically
We might say the same thing about the Illiad.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 1:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:39 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 304 of 1352 (805650)
04-19-2017 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by Faith
04-19-2017 6:39 PM


Re: On "opinions"
To the extent that it is historical then I would assume its dates are useful for tracking historical events.
Exactly. But you are insisting on more than that. Your claim is that since the Bible is accurate when referring to historical events, we should extend that to events that are only described in the Bible.
The difference cannot be that some folks insist that the Bible is accurate, while nobody does the same thing for the Illiad or Beowulf. The real point here is that you have not given us any reason to distinguish the way the Bible refers to kings and events we know about and the way that the Illiad does.
In short, just referencing something that has happened does not extend any truth to the remaining text. Otherwise we might just get news from episodes of Saturday Night Live.
Do you have any better arguments?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 298 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 305 of 1352 (805651)
04-19-2017 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Faith
04-19-2017 6:51 PM


Re: more just plain not true assertions
I have two millennia of the best Bible exegetes behind me.
Surely the idea that the Bible carved the Grand Canyon is much younger than that. In fact, the idea may not be much younger than either of us!

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 301 by Faith, posted 04-19-2017 6:51 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 353 of 1352 (805839)
04-21-2017 1:51 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
04-21-2017 12:59 AM


Re: True history of that shows there was never a Biblical Flood
The Bible is great evidence, being a written account from people near the time of the event.
With regard to the flood, the Genesis account was not written by people who were even alive near the time of the event. Why would you even make that claim?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 12:59 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by Faith, posted 04-21-2017 3:00 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 388 of 1352 (805916)
04-21-2017 1:03 PM
Reply to: Message 366 by Davidjay
04-21-2017 11:14 AM


Re: Let's not keep arguing the same old basics
Science dating methods are not reliable beyond a few thousand years
Amusing. But it turns out those few thousand years are all that is needed to figure out when the Pyramids and Stonehenge were erected, and to date some cave paintings in France.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Davidjay, posted 04-21-2017 11:14 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
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