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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 645 of 1006 (805334)
04-17-2017 9:07 PM
Reply to: Message 630 by Tangle
04-16-2017 12:26 PM


Tangle: "Admit it, the creationists obsession with the ToE is purely because it contradicts a literal analysis of your book."
I would have thought it obvious that Christian creationists are obsessed with ToE because it contradicts the Bible (after all, it is the duty of every Christian to oppose the works of the devil). But this isn't my only objection to ToE - it offends me because it is an abuse of science and has polluted true science with useless atheism-inspired rubbish. The once-noble science of biology, for example, has been hijacked by atheists and turned into a giant propaganda tool for their theology.
Some atheists study ToE like some Christians study the Bible, which is pretty damned strange when you consider that ToE that has no practical use - however, it all makes sense when you realise that ToE serves as the basis for an atheist's quasi-religious worldview. So creationists aren't the only ones obsessed with ToE.
But this is getting off-topic.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 630 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2017 12:26 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 646 of 1006 (805335)
04-17-2017 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 617 by Tangle
04-16-2017 5:07 AM


You seem to have missed the point. Christians who believe in evolution also believe in the Bible, which says they are made in the image of God and are worth much more than bugs.
On the other hand, atheists believe in evolution, and evolution implies that all life is meaningless and dispensable and that humans are worth no more than bugs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 617 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2017 5:07 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 649 by jar, posted 04-17-2017 9:28 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 650 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2017 10:00 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 654 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:34 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 647 of 1006 (805336)
04-17-2017 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 627 by Dr Adequate
04-16-2017 10:51 AM


Dr. Adequate: "... I shouldn't kill people..."
Why shouldn't you kill people? How did you arrive at this morality?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 627 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-16-2017 10:51 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 651 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2017 10:02 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 648 of 1006 (805337)
04-17-2017 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 615 by Minnemooseus
04-15-2017 8:13 PM


Re: In the moral big picture, humans or bees more important?
Minnemooseus: "I hate to advocate genocide, but leaving such up to God, I think the planet would have been a lot better off if God had eliminated Noah and family also."
If atheists are right - that there is no Creator God and life is the result of evolution - then genocide is neither right nor wrong, because, as I've already pointed out, it doesn't matter if humans exist or don't exist.
I've also said morality can be whatever you want it to be - for example, since you believe humanity is "a disease upon the planet", you may believe it morally acceptable to kill humans en mass in order to save the planet from "disease". And since evolution means objective morality doesn't exist, your morality is just as valid as anyone else's. Neither can anyone prove that your morality is wrong and their's is right.
-------------------------------------------------
Minnemooseus: "So, was God being moral in how the "flood" was executed?"
I don't know; I don't understand the question.
--------------------------------------------------
Minnemooseus: "I think killing a human and killing a bee are both immoral."
If atheistic evolution is true, I wonder how you came to the conclusion that killing any creature is immoral. I would conclude from ToE that neither killing a human nor killing a bee is immoral, because no life needs to exist and all life is meaningless and dispensible. Killing something that has no meaning cannot be immoral. And if life is meaningless, then so is morality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 615 by Minnemooseus, posted 04-15-2017 8:13 PM Minnemooseus has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 655 by Pressie, posted 04-18-2017 6:39 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 676 of 1006 (805657)
04-20-2017 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 659 by Tangle
04-18-2017 1:53 PM


Re: You really need to drop that straw man by now
Tangle: "Our values and how we arrive at them have nothing to do with ToE".
That's because we aren't products of ToE. The meaningless of life and morality implied by ToE doesn't correspond with what humans feel, because our Creator built meaning and morality into our brains andpsyches.
I think it might strange that the process of evolution, which is mindless and meaningless, produces us humans, who are the opposite of mindless and who search for meaning. That does not compute.
----------------------------------------
Tangle: "it's obvious that something that harms others is wrong"
A shark, for example, doesn't know that harming others is wrong; a shark will rip the head off a baby and think nothing off it. In contrast, you know it's wrong to harm others because God gave human beings a conscience which instinctively tells them that some things are morally wrong. This inbuilt morality is sometimes referred to as "natural law".
But according to ToE, life is meaningless, so harming others is meaningless and is neither right nor wrong.
--------------------------------
Tangle: "we are virtually genetically identical to apes".
Another evo' myth. If we are so genetically close, why are we, in reality, vastly different creatures? The differences between humans and apes are massive, and on all sorts of levels.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 659 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 1:53 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 681 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 2:38 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 677 of 1006 (805658)
04-20-2017 1:44 AM
Reply to: Message 657 by Faith
04-18-2017 1:00 PM


Re: You really need to drop that straw man by now
Faith: "the sicksties"
What a fabulous word! The so-called Enlightenment produced a cult of atheist intellectualism that started chipping away at the strong dam wall of Christainity ... the sicksties marked the final collapse of that dam and the end of Christianity as the dominant cultural force. Evolution stepped in and became the new "theology" of entire civilizations. Welcome to the Great Apostasy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 657 by Faith, posted 04-18-2017 1:00 PM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 685 by Pressie, posted 04-20-2017 8:48 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 678 of 1006 (805659)
04-20-2017 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 655 by Pressie
04-18-2017 6:39 AM


Re: In the moral big picture, humans or bees more important?
Pressie: "Why do you tell untruths about scientific theories?"
I would attempt to answer this question if I knew what you're talking about.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 679 of 1006 (805660)
04-20-2017 1:49 AM
Reply to: Message 654 by Tangle
04-18-2017 5:34 AM


You disagree with my claim that athesits believe in evolution. I would imagine 99.999999% of atheists in the Western world believe that all life is a result of evolution.
It's evident that you are obsessed with ToE - why else would you daily devote your precious time to arguing online with dissenting creationists? You obviously have a quasi-religious attachment to it, and a deep-seated psychological need to believe it and protect it from infidels. Your interest in ToE doesn't stem from a love of biology, but from the love of a theory that supposedly proves God doesn't exist. Many atheists are in the same quasi-religious boat. Hence, it is appropriate to refer to ToE as atheist theology.
But this is off-topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 654 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 5:34 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 683 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 3:03 AM Dredge has not replied
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 680 of 1006 (805661)
04-20-2017 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 651 by Dr Adequate
04-17-2017 10:02 PM


Dr. Adequate: "Your turn, Please answer the same questions."
I shouldn't kill because it might land me in jail ... I used to drive taxis at night in a large city and at times I really did feel like killing some people.
How did I arrive at this morality? The Lord commanded, "Thou shat not kill" ... and the Lord knows best.
----------------
You say you ignored the Bible and relied on your own conscience to get your morals. If God doesn't exist, then the morality expressed in the Bible is the morality of human beings. How is it possible to prove that your morality is superior to the morality of those human beings whom you think wrote the Bible?
Adolf Hitler's conscience told him that it was morally good to murder six millions Jews. You would no doubt disagree and claim that what he did was morally wrong. How is it possible to prove that your code of morality is correct and that his is wrong?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 651 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-17-2017 10:02 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 682 by PaulK, posted 04-20-2017 2:47 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 709 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 1:16 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 706 of 1006 (805823)
04-20-2017 11:34 PM
Reply to: Message 685 by Pressie
04-20-2017 8:48 AM


Re: You really need to drop that straw man by now
Pressie: "the good old sixties"
... the Age of drug-fuelled stupidity and madness. Nothing that idiotic could stand the test of time, but some fools never grew out of it.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
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Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 707 of 1006 (805825)
04-20-2017 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 694 by Faith
04-20-2017 3:12 PM


Re: Could you explain your Good Lord remarks
Faith: "Romans 1:22, 23, 25"
Spot on, Faith!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by Faith, posted 04-20-2017 3:12 PM Faith has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 710 of 1006 (805967)
04-21-2017 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 693 by jar
04-20-2017 3:00 PM


Re: All you need is ...
This is typical dreamy sickties drivel that John Lennon came up with after his morning dose of LSD. He never grew out of it - much later he wrote more sicksties drivel called "Imagine".

This message is a reply to:
 Message 693 by jar, posted 04-20-2017 3:00 PM jar has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 711 of 1006 (805969)
04-21-2017 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 681 by Tangle
04-20-2017 2:38 AM


Re: You really need to drop that straw man by now
Are you telling me that you don't find it strange that a mindless process can produce a mind? Fascinating.
Tangle: "Harming other is wrong."
Well, that's just your opinion. Adolf Hitler didn't think it wrong to harm Jews. The Khmer didn't think it wrong to murder millons of their own cirizens. You would consider your opinion superior to some others, but how do you prove it?
Tangle: "ToE makes no value judgements"
Ok, but implications can be drawn from facts; so if ToE is a fact, implications can be drawn from it. One implication of ToE is that you can choose to ignore any implications that can be drawn from it.
-------------------------------
When I first heard the yarn, humans and chimps shared about 93% of their DNA. As the years when by, it went up to 95 ... then 98 ... now it's 98.8%! Maybe we'll get to 100% one day! I also heard that humans share a surprisng percentage of their DNA with bananas and horses.
But I digresss. My point is, there is a humungous gap between humans and chimps that DNA fails to explain. Which reminds me, this is off-topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 681 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 2:38 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 712 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 9:53 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 719 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2017 2:34 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 720 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-22-2017 9:30 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 713 of 1006 (805971)
04-21-2017 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 709 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2017 1:16 AM


I was hoping you could enlighten me as to how you can prove that your code of morality is any better or more correct than anyone else's code of morality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 709 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 1:16 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 714 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 10:00 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 715 of 1006 (805973)
04-21-2017 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 712 by Dr Adequate
04-21-2017 9:53 PM


Dr. Adequate: "Do you think youncould demonstrate that ...?"
If naturalistic evolution is a fact, one can draw the implication that human life is meaningless. But if this implication doesn't appeal, then just ignore it and believe that human life has meaning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 712 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 9:53 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 717 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-21-2017 10:14 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 723 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-22-2017 11:16 AM Dredge has replied

  
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