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Author Topic:   Brexit - Should they stay or should they go?
LamarkNewAge
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Posts: 1036
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 211 of 244 (804460)
04-09-2017 9:19 PM


IMF has 2017 List of Countries Projected GDP per capita (Poland hits milestone )
In 2005, only 15% of the world had PPP (purchasing power adjusted yearly income per person ) that was half of the yearly per person United States yearly income. That bumped up to 16% in 2014 (though some fell back from earlier, but the net was toward more PPP equality )

The website below has raw $ and PPP for 2017 and Poland will cross the 50% PPP according to the projections. But

http://statistics.com/...untries-by-projected-gdp-capita.php

The disturbing thing is that almost all of the top countries had higher incomes ( in raw dollars though PPP is pleasantly increasing and infact the projected world per capita PPP is at the highest level in history at a projected $17,050) in the past. The actual dollar based incomes (what these countries would see their income be if everything was exchanged for $$$) is actually over $1000 per person lower than a few years ago. And it isn't just the United Kingdom we are talking about here though those idiots did so much of the damage.

There are projections going up to 2020 for the world and individual nations. See links on left of the page the link takes you to.

The data in these links are literally the most important and telling measures of human progress and I mean it without exaggeration.

The 2014 situation had India as the world's 9th largest economy (in straight U. S. $ on the exchange ) and in 2016 it is 7th.

In 2020, India will number 5.

In purchasing power parity India will hit $9,306 in 2020 which will be an amazing milestone because, despite the overall world hitting an all time projected high of PPP per capita $19,611 in 2020, India will actually be over 50% of the world average for the first time in my lifetime.

China will have a PPP above the world average!

20,997 verses 19'611

The most recent data is from October 2016 so understand that the 2016 numbers are also projections.

The mmeasure of progress we must note:

2016 PPP
16,300

2020
19,600

The actual (exchange rate )dollar average for 2020 is still less than $1000 higher than the average in 2014-15 though but purchasing power parity is an accurate way to look at how things are able to be afforded by the people of the world. It is a very real measure of progress especially as it relates to whether folks will be motivated to leave or stay in their countrys of origin.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


    
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 670
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 212 of 244 (805374)
04-18-2017 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Diomedes
03-20-2017 10:41 AM


British PM calls for elections in June
https://www.washingtonpost.com/...03-9d616bd5a305_story.html

quote:
LONDON — British Prime Minister Theresa May stunned her nation and its European partners Tuesday with a call for an early national election on June 8, seeking to cement her political backing as Britain moves ahead with the difficult negotiations on its break from the European Union.

The surprise announcement — made outside her office at 10 Downing Street — also comes amid internal political strains over Brexit and fresh moves by Scotland to potentially carve its own independent path to remain in the European Union.

On the wider European stage, the election cannot undo Britain’s break from the European Union. But it will help set the tone for Britain’s contentious talks to split from the bloc, where the 27 remaining leaders of the bloc have taken a hard line against any major concessions on key issues such as trade.


Interesting gambit. I am guessing she is hoping the results solidify her position.


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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5264
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 213 of 244 (805377)
04-18-2017 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Diomedes
04-18-2017 9:40 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
Diomedes writes:

Interesting gambit. I am guessing she is hoping the results solidify her position.

Yup it's quite clever. She'll win with a big majority. She'll be able to control her party, cut the Scotts off at the pass, and strengthen her hand with Europe. No down side.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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Heathen
Member
Posts: 1033
From: Brizzle
Joined: 09-20-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 214 of 244 (805385)
04-18-2017 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Diomedes
04-18-2017 9:40 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
quote:
Interesting gambit. I am guessing she is hoping the results solidify her position.

It will, unfortunately. The opposition is defunct.
The tories will gain a substantial majority and run roughshod over the NHS, the Poor, the welfare system and ultimately be able to drag us into a hard brexit completely ignoring the 48% who voted to remain.


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jar
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Posts: 29820
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 215 of 244 (805387)
04-18-2017 11:14 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Heathen
04-18-2017 11:08 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
Hum a little of the tune. It seems I've heard those very same lines recently.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Meddle
Member
Posts: 163
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 216 of 244 (805654)
04-19-2017 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Tangle
04-18-2017 9:59 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
She'll win with a big majority. She'll be able to control her party, cut the Scotts off at the pass, and strengthen her hand with Europe. No down side.

Ahem... cut the scotts[sic] off at the pass? I'd be interested to know how you'd come to that conclusion. She'd already argued for the council elections to make that arguement. It wouldn't be because the only reason May became tory leader was because she was the one holding the bag when everyone else bowed out? Also strengthen her hand with europe, when it's an internal constitutional matter?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Tangle, posted 04-18-2017 9:59 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 3:46 AM Meddle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5264
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 217 of 244 (805673)
04-20-2017 3:46 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Meddle
04-19-2017 9:12 PM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
Meddle writes:

Ahem... cut the scotts[sic] off at the pass? I'd be interested to know how you'd come to that conclusion.

There's a very good chance that some otherwise SNP votes will go to the conservatives because the majority of Scots don't want to leave the Union and a million voted for Brexit. It's quite possible that they'll win a couple more seats and be able to say that there's a change away from the SNP.

Sturgeon will also have to stop calling her unelected removing another whine.

She'd already argued for the council elections to make that arguement. It wouldn't be because the only reason May became tory leader was because she was the one holding the bag when everyone else bowed out?

Yes, she's quite clever isn't she?

Also strengthen her hand with europe, when it's an internal constitutional matter?

It's a negotiation. If she's elected with a large majority, whatever deal she does, she - and the EU - know that it can be delivered. It denies the EU a negotiation tactic.

I've never voted conservative in my life, but I think I'll have to this time around.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Meddle, posted 04-19-2017 9:12 PM Meddle has responded

Replies to this message:
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 Message 219 by caffeine, posted 04-20-2017 1:16 PM Tangle has responded
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 1858
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 218 of 244 (805680)
04-20-2017 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by Tangle
04-20-2017 3:46 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
I think that Theresa is between a rock and a hard place. She was not in favour of Brexit at all, but now she's got to manage it.

She's a very clever politician and very intelligent in real life. She accepts reality. Most of the British voters who cast their votes in that referendum did vote for leaving the EU. She's got to figure out what to do with it. Basically reality; do something.

Interesting days ahead.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1360
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 219 of 244 (805743)
04-20-2017 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Tangle
04-20-2017 3:46 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
It's a negotiation. If she's elected with a large majority, whatever deal she does, she - and the EU - know that it can be delivered. It denies the EU a negotiation tactic.

I've never voted conservative in my life, but I think I'll have to this time around.

What? Didn't you just explain why it would be a disaster if the Tories win a large majority?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 3:46 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 2:36 PM caffeine has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 5264
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 220 of 244 (805748)
04-20-2017 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 219 by caffeine
04-20-2017 1:16 PM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
caffeine writes:

What? Didn't you just explain why it would be a disaster if the Tories win a large majority?

I don't believe so.

But I think all of the alternatives are worse. I think we can trust this women to get a deal. After that god knows.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 219 by caffeine, posted 04-20-2017 1:16 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by caffeine, posted 04-20-2017 4:28 PM Tangle has responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1360
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 221 of 244 (805774)
04-20-2017 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by Tangle
04-20-2017 2:36 PM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
I don't believe so.

But I think all of the alternatives are worse. I think we can trust this women to get a deal. After that god knows.

Theresa May is committed to ending what, to my mind, is the greatest acheivement of the European project - the free movement of labour. I do not want a Britain led to be May to have a strong negotiating hand. I would much prefer her weak and crippled by domestic dissension, if this would force her to concede this central point.

I'm reluctantly thinking of voting Lib Dem, as support for Europe is their one coherent policy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 2:36 PM Tangle has responded

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5264
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 222 of 244 (805793)
04-20-2017 6:09 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by caffeine
04-20-2017 4:28 PM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
caffeine writes:

Theresa May is committed to ending what, to my mind, is the greatest acheivement of the European project - the free movement of labour.

That and the rest. Our exit from the EU is a generational tragedy. Given the option, I would have voted for a EU federation. But that's not where we are now. Given that we're leaving, I want the best deal possible.

I do not want a Britain led to be May to have a strong negotiating hand. I would much prefer her weak and crippled by domestic dissension, if this would force her to concede this central point.

Then we get stuffed. We've been dealt a shit hand, I think it wiser not to make it worse by revealing our cards.

I'm reluctantly thinking of voting Lib Dem, as support for Europe is their one coherent policy.

A little like falling on your sword, I feel.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by caffeine, posted 04-20-2017 4:28 PM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Meddle
Member
Posts: 163
From: Scotland
Joined: 05-08-2006


Message 223 of 244 (805809)
04-20-2017 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Tangle
04-20-2017 3:46 AM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
There's a very good chance that some otherwise SNP votes will go to the conservatives because the majority of Scots don't want to leave the Union and a million voted for Brexit. It's quite possible that they'll win a couple more seats and be able to say that there's a change away from the SNP.

Well there is a chance, although I wouldn't describe it as a good chance. For those who are opposed to another independence referendum once article 50 is concluded, they are as likely to vote for Labour as conservative. But then how to define a shift away from SNP policy? After all the brexit result shows you don't need a lot to declare a 'mandate'.

It's a negotiation. If she's elected with a large majority, whatever deal she does, she - and the EU - know that it can be delivered. It denies the EU a negotiation tactic.

Well I could be optimistic and think that a larger majority would mean she didn't feel obliged to capitulate to the hard right of her party, or the Daily Mail. But I'm not that optimistic. She seems intent on unilaterally acting on her own views of brexit which appears to be single-minded ending of freedom of movement, regardless of the costs. She could have recognised the closeness of the result, or that half the countries voted to remain, and at the very least continued in the single market. Not only would it have made it harder for Nicola Sturgeon to argue for independence, she even argued for this as an alternative, it would have made it easier for Northern Ireland to maintain the Good Friday agreement.
Instead her manoeuvring so far, even before negotiations have begun, have served to only harden the resolve of the 27 EU states.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Tangle, posted 04-20-2017 3:46 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5264
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 224 of 244 (805842)
04-21-2017 4:01 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by Meddle
04-20-2017 9:11 PM


Re: British PM calls for elections in June
Meddle writes:

Well there is a chance, although I wouldn't describe it as a good chance. For those who are opposed to another independence referendum once article 50 is concluded, they are as likely to vote for Labour as conservative. But then how to define a shift away from SNP policy?

It's quite likely that a couple of seats will change. That's all it takes for May to say that the SNP's position is not wholeheartedly supported by the Scottish electorate.

She seems intent on unilaterally acting on her own views of brexit which appears to be single-minded ending of freedom of movement, regardless of the costs.

I don't think we know anything about what her views are yet. I think she's being extremely clever about that. She's spending most of her time shoring up her negotiating position. But restricting freedom of movement is a given. There's really no point hoping that any negotiations will give that away - there'd be a public lynching.

Instead her manoeuvring so far, even before negotiations have begun, have served to only harden the resolve of the 27 EU states.

This will go back and forward for years but there's really nothing whatsoever to be gained by allowing your opponents to know that the guy/gal on the other side of the table is in a politically weak position. It doesn't matter what the otherside think of it.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Meddle, posted 04-20-2017 9:11 PM Meddle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Diomedes
Member
Posts: 670
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 225 of 244 (811168)
06-05-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Tangle
04-21-2017 4:01 AM


Polls are narrowing
quote:
A polling shift suggests Britain’s election may be more exciting — and unpredictable — than expected

Take a look at the average of polls collated by groups like Britain Elects and you'll see a clear surge in support for Labour. If the polls are right, this means that May could actually lose seats in Parliament rather than gain them. At least one poll has raised the possibility of a hung parliament, where no one party would have an outright majority — a scenario that could even see Corbyn as prime minister, if he could cobble together a coalition.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/...table-than-anyone-expected

Considering the outcome of other recent elections, I wouldn't be surprised by anything at this stage.


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