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Author Topic:   Debunking the Evolutionary God of 'Selection'
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 1 of 323 (806052)
04-20-2017 9:34 AM


Evolutionists admit their so called mutations all come about at random, but they seem to have deified their natural selction of this so called beneficial mutations with a non random deity called "SELECTION'.
So lets logically and systematically debunk this deity of theirs, after they try to confirm Her or His or Its Godlike Process.
They can try to select a spokesperson, or two or three, who can testify to its godlike qualities, and then lets start the debate.
IHS
David
PS) But lets stick totally to biology and science, and maybe math rather than allowing their religious views to enter IN. Thanks

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-21-2017 7:57 AM Davidjay has replied
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 Message 40 by bluegenes, posted 04-23-2017 5:38 PM Davidjay has replied
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 3 of 323 (806054)
04-21-2017 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by Admin
04-21-2017 7:57 AM


Let the readers decide
But Percy, I got the idea for this thread, when I heard you personnally talking about, Selection' as if its nonrandomness countered the luck randomness of mutations. These being the only two forces supposedly causing evolution in your theory.
So to convince you, would be monumental, and in this case the debate would be for readers to decide rather than an evolutionist to decide. Few evolutionists ever change their mind.
For in a debate BOTH sides put forth their arguments and not just one side. Hence wouldnt you or some other evolutionist have to prove that selection's supposed non randomness does not make it a living thing or an evolutionary 'god' in the minds of evolutionists.
Lets debate it, rather than me convincing you to retract your belief system. Just a proposed good NEW TOPIC.
IHGS
David

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Admin, posted 04-21-2017 7:57 AM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 04-22-2017 10:53 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 5 of 323 (806056)
04-22-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by Admin
04-22-2017 10:53 AM


Re: Let the readers decide
Evolutionists say selection is NOT at random, although admitting their mutational god is at random and undirected and strictly by luck and chance. This is not debateable, all sides agree mutations can not be forced, and can not be passed on through experiences or conditions of the species or living KIND.
The explanation you gave is that, selection is not random and somehow is the guiding non random selective force that picks out magic mutations or statistially impossible beneficial mutations, that give a species a slightly better chance of survival in an environment.
But you are making an artifical dissection of mutations. You are suggesting that selection is alive and different than beneficial mutations. Firstly beneficial mutations is an unproven wild theory of evolutionists, and never have existed and theres no proof any explosive mutated by chance beneficial anything has ever changed any KIND.
Your beneficial mutation, by its so called change selects itself because by your wild definition and imagination, it gives the qualities for better survival, better lung capacity, better whale spout holes, better speed for chetahs, a better chance of survival.
So consequently beneficial (impossible) mutations select their viability themselves by being the one in a billion mutations that supposedly make it.
Your separate so called no random selective force is wrapped up in your mutational philosophy and theory that one in a billion mutations is 'beneficial' and is more viable than the original.
If you are unable to debate this, so be it.
But me convincing you, to change your mind is hardly going to happen in my opinion, as you are an evolutionist.
But let the readers decide .....
IHBS (IN HIs Biological Service)
David

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Admin, posted 04-22-2017 10:53 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 04-22-2017 12:48 PM Davidjay has replied
 Message 10 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-22-2017 3:19 PM Davidjay has not replied
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 Message 25 by Coyote, posted 04-23-2017 11:13 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 17 of 323 (806139)
04-23-2017 9:32 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by ringo
04-22-2017 12:48 PM


Re: Mutations dont make zebras run faster
Magic mutations wont make a zebra run faster... its an illusion.
Magic mutations wont make a lion or lioness run faster or make a chateeh have the special running capabilities in a very COMPLEX backbone, eye combination that will help it catch prey.
Please read and study the CHEETAH THREAD.
Please study genetics before posting. Thanks

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by ringo, posted 04-22-2017 12:48 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 04-23-2017 2:09 PM Davidjay has not replied
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 18 of 323 (806141)
04-23-2017 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by Tangle
04-22-2017 2:02 PM


I heard the supposed moth evolution, maybe forty years ago.
Please study genetics, colour change is not evolution. Its dominant/recessive colour genes, just as humans have different skin colors when interbreeding among their own KIND.
Skin color is not evolution. Nor is interbreeding of dogs to bring out a characteristic, and a weaker breed, so that one trait can be amplified.
Understand breeding and variability within a KIND.
The Creator made variabiloity to give individuality etc.... to humans and differtent KINDS, these combinations make slight superficial changes not major changes or design changes. Humans are humans despite their slight changes.
SEE and study
Evolution is a racist doctrine....
Thanks
Yes, its sad thast evolutionists use these moths as their fundamental excuse for thinking moths become a different KIND.
PS) Also note that a KIND usually isolates and disregards or kills any of their kind that does not match their appearance, so as to keep the KIND uniform. They keep their identity if a minor change in colour etc takes place. They select the norm, the template
See and study wasps, bees etc..

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Tangle, posted 04-22-2017 2:02 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2017 10:24 AM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 19 of 323 (806142)
04-23-2017 9:45 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Porosity
04-22-2017 2:48 PM


There have been no beneficial mutations, thats a pipe dream of evolutionists. Explosions and radiation do not create positive changes that ever help a KIND or species.
And please please stop sughgesting a learned behaviour can be transmitted genetically. Nothing a person or animal does effects their DNA, all offfspring are the same. As with Adam and Eve so with animals etc..... they follow their DNA KIND.
Sexual cells differentiate early in development and stay in the gonads. Lightning bolts etc to the gonads, dont produce magically better individuals, lightning bolts destroy and incapicitate or stop reproduction at the very least.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Porosity, posted 04-22-2017 2:48 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2017 10:31 AM Davidjay has not replied
 Message 32 by Porosity, posted 04-23-2017 2:54 PM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 20 of 323 (806143)
04-23-2017 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Phat
04-22-2017 6:14 PM


Re: Probability
Youre probabilty wrong, matter of fact you are wrong, because there is no probability that there has ever been a magical beneficial mutation. All of evolution hinges on the supposed existence and proof of one magical lucky moment in time when one beneficial mutation took place. They are still trying to find one, and still trying to find a missing link.
But Yes, evolution is about probability, or suggesting by luck eventually a magic mutation would materialize out of their ashes of defeat and resurrect and verify their theory. Evolution is a luck and chance religion, but the faithful have faith and encourage one another with their mutual support.
Thanks for again stating that evolution is all about luck and chance and hoped for probability eventually, somehow, someway, some time given a billion trillion years of trying.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Phat, posted 04-22-2017 6:14 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 21 of 323 (806146)
04-23-2017 10:11 AM


BACK TO THE TOPIC !
The topic is selection, sometimes called natural selection, as evolutionists do love to use semantics and double speak as if selection is natural. And they love to infer that NATURural is part of NATURE, or from the beginning, as they directly or indirectly worship MOTHER NATURE, as did their religious ancestors. Their are basically animists in their philosphy and religion.
Please read and reread this forum to see that evolutionists believe that laws were just here from the BEGINNING and did not evolve. Their theory of nonsense only starts after living things became living things. In other words they have a Creation Model, that all things were created in the BEGINNING, and that a Big Bang or Bog Explosion created all things, or an even wierder theory that this explosion was slow and gradual.
Anyway, the vast vast majority of evolutionists admit that mutations are non random, non directed and just sort of happen by accident every so often every few million years. (Forget recombination variability HERE as that is not a mutation but a recombination inbuilt genetic variability given by the Creator. All traits, adaptions, instincts, behaviours are given at CREATION)
So as Percy stated, he states in different ways and different times, that although mutations are at random, he says selction is not at random and is directed or is different than mutations because it is almost alive and deciding what so called magic beneficial mutation is selected.
Hmm.. wait a minute that is double speak...... that doesnt make sense, because one it assumes there are some beneficial mutations made by puck and chance, when that is not the case. Similiarly a life changing mutation (if one ever existed) by its very definition stays alive and is selected already when it so called magically comes into existence and stays alive.
Life chooses life........ Well Yes, of course, anything alive is alive.
And life will not choose a dead thing or a dead end thing, or a horribly mutated dying thing or deviant thing.
Natural selection weeds out any deformities and abnormalies. Predators by the Lords design basically are used to weed out the weak and the diseased, etc etc etc.... you evolutionists need to study biology. The normal and healthy and templated as the ORIGINAL, usually dont get selected by the Lords predators but the weak and deformed, the injured and the nonbenefical-mutated ones.
Selah, think about it, understand it, see it.
Natural selection culls the ABNORMAL ones........ that dont fit into the design of the Creator.
But thinking natural SELECTION is a God that selects and chooses, is a religious concept, evolutionists have made up to verify their religion. You cant divide up a mutational life changing -change into two categories. One they called random mutations the second they call natural selection. For with their semantics, they now pretend to have a non random 'alive and kicking and selecting' life force rather than their admitted dead and dying non random mutation cornerstone.
Please stick to this topic, rather than wandering all over with your evolutionary excuses from all kinds of wierd other excuses.
Stick to the topic.
Thanks

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2017 10:37 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 26 of 323 (806163)
04-23-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Tangle
04-23-2017 10:37 AM


Re: BACK TO THE TOPIC !
Yes, manipulative man made inbreeding, and inbreeding can cause superifical changes (and many negative ones), that even dumb evolutionists think is an example of mutational change. No, it is inbreeding a species, as with racism, as with dog breeding to bring out recessive traits in a popualtion, even though they are still humans and or ..... still dogs.
Amazingly they even have racists laws HERE in Canada, and surely elsewhere, that ensure an inbreeding culture. (Status Indians children must have status indian parents, In other words no intermarrying of natives with whites etc... as their children would lose all the advanatages of being native.)
Mixing or NON-RACISM develops strong species, whereas racism and inbreeding does not create a superior race or breed but a weaker one.
Please study and read.... Evolution is a racist doctrine. And help stop human inbreeding and racism. The cornerstone of evolution.
Tangle, again color change is not evolution, nor a mutational change of significance, its called VARIATION in colour....as life selects life, and the colour change makes them more hidden than
the other colours (Color is American spelling, colour is British/Canadain spelling)
Tangle your classic example cornerstone crumbles.
For yet again, study chameleons and how they supposedly mutated til they got the ability to blend into their background, was this by chance, by their brain power, or by selectivity, or by design.
An honest intelligent person has no problem deciding its by D******.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2017 10:37 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Tangle, posted 04-23-2017 3:03 PM Davidjay has not replied
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 27 of 323 (806164)
04-23-2017 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Coyote
04-23-2017 11:13 AM


Re: On selection
No, your evolutionary experts just stated categorically that populations do not branch out, and are equally evolved at any given time, and consequently the same genetically at a given time.
You are contradicting your experts HERE.
I realize, they were double speaking and trying to evade the obvious conclusion that evolution is a racist doctrine. Nevertheless to go further, you or they must make up your minds what your doctrine teaches...
It either is a branching out of a population making a new species, step by step, or it is NOT a branching out, and is not racist.
You say it is a branching out, to try or attempt to show evolution logic or proof, so get your experts HERE to change their posts on
Evolution is a racist doctrine.
You can not have it BOTH ways, and keep changing your doctrine.
Your congregation has to speak the same thing and have the same principles. Choose a leader or preacher, and have him/her state your principles and be consistent.
Then Ill destroy your graphs from there.
Thanks.
PST... Its so easy to get evolutionists to get confused, frustrated and contradictory. I mean how can lack of design or intelligence ever dfeat intelligence and design.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Coyote, posted 04-23-2017 11:13 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Coyote, posted 04-23-2017 11:49 AM Davidjay has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 29 of 323 (806172)
04-23-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Coyote
04-23-2017 11:49 AM


Re: On selection
Coyote, by not answering or studying you lose the argument and put your evolutionary side at further risk.
Back to the topic, as we are suppose to bring something to the table with each post, rather than you saying nothing and bringing nothing to the communal lunch. Cook up something Coyote, at least try, put in some time and effort, rather than complaint complaint, denial denial.
Life selecting life is redunadant, and is part of life, not two separate processes. If a so called mutation lives, its the mutation that so called is alive and viable doesnt need selection, it just lives.
But of course we know there are no beneficial mutations that have ever existed that lived and created a new species. Radiation causes changes, but never have they ever changed a species for the better, or make them more survive-able. Usually any mutation that does happen are exterminated in one generation. Variability of course happens as designed by the ever loving spice of life God also called the Creator.
So come on evolutionists select some words that defend your non random slection process.
Selection is life, so called life changing mutations, mystically called benefeical mutations

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Coyote, posted 04-23-2017 11:49 AM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 41 of 323 (806291)
04-24-2017 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Porosity
04-23-2017 2:54 PM


I only defend my own words, and works and design, what others do is their choice and their belief system.
I am not a groupie like evolutionists are, which is why I tell them to try and agree together before posting. This because one states one thing and another states another. It gets rather confusing, probably because they are confused and because its only a theory which gets compounded by more theories of more theories....
See study and read
GroupFaithversusIndividualFaith
It applies to all things, all religions and all principles.
We` all must answer for our own lifes and thoughts, and decisions rather than blaming others or just going along with others. Be responsible and mature. Thats the law of the Lord

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Porosity, posted 04-23-2017 2:54 PM Porosity has replied

Replies to this message:
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 42 of 323 (806294)
04-24-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by bluegenes
04-23-2017 5:38 PM


Evolution Selection supposedly sustains life ? ?
Selection is your god, not mine. Please defend your faith and state something about your beloved nonrandom selector who selects living mutations that somehow someway are already viable and ALIVE.
Ahhh you dont say your god brings them to life, you dsay your god keeps them alive by not killing them into extinction with HER environmental conditions.
OK, we are making progress, you say evolution is a SUSTAINER and PROVIDER of magic mutations that are alive and viable, and 'She' or MOTHER NATURE or a divine environment keeps them alive by her conditions, and selects and sustains these exploding mutational new life forms.
Sort of like a radiation scientist picking out new mutated life forms that are radioactive that aren;t effected by a radioactive environment....
Im not buying it, or ready to honor your god of SELECTION and her SUSTAINING ABILITIES of what is already alive.
Now we are making progress.... as logically speaking evolutionists can not say selection gives anything LIFE, it only supposedly sustains or selects life forms, or sustains life forms under her wings.....
Ahah, I knew I or we would further this debate and come to the basic premise of evolutionary theory or lies.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by bluegenes, posted 04-23-2017 5:38 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by bluegenes, posted 04-24-2017 2:51 PM Davidjay has not replied
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Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 43 of 323 (806296)
04-24-2017 11:37 AM


Evolutionists cant defend their god of Selection
Evolutionists by their very basic principle of luck and chance can not and will not defend their scientific (religious) belief system. Therefore all they can attempt to do is go on the offensive and blame creation and creationists ideas and laws.
Evolutionists can not debate. This because they are not used to answering questions of their beloved forced beliefs. They have never thought them through. They are sacro-sanct and not to be questioned, so they know not any answers.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by ringo, posted 04-24-2017 11:43 AM Davidjay has replied
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 04-24-2017 12:08 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2319 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 44 of 323 (806297)
04-24-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by Chiroptera
04-23-2017 5:24 PM


Benefical Mutation probability is ZERO
Chir, when the probability of a benefical mutation ever taking hold is ZERO in one generation, then in the following generation it's probability is zero as well.
All evolution hinges on the theory that there has to be a beneficial mutation somewhere, someplace at sometime.
Zero however is zero is zero is zero, and stays ZERO.
Recombination and variability within a kind is a probabilty, as with inbreeding and contenental DRIFT separation, isolation separation, racist separation, nationalism separation, but still the KIND is the same..
SEE Evolution is a Racist Doctrine
But no new kinds or species of mankind or animal kind has developed from so called beneficial mutations or even one beneficial mutation.
No probability means no probabilty and their graphs becoming straight lines with NO PROBABILITY, and they have no driving force or new god or new species.
Edited by Davidjay, : No reason given.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Chiroptera, posted 04-23-2017 5:24 PM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
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