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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House The Trump Presidency

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Author Topic:   The Trump Presidency
marc9000
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Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 725 of 4573 (804171)
04-07-2017 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 724 by Dr Adequate
04-07-2017 10:26 AM


Re: This is great.
https://www.usnews.com/...ack-changes-donald-trump-worldview
quote:
...in reality, a foreign policy transformation based on roiling real-time events wouldn't be anything new for a U.S. President. Trump would, in fact, fall in a long line of chief executives who've drastically altered their worldviews once saddled by the weight of the office and the consequences of inaction.
It happens fairly often. Take the last two presidents.
Am I allowed to break forum rule #5, since the Dr. is making such a major habit of it in this thread?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 724 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-07-2017 10:26 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2017 1:02 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 732 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-08-2017 11:56 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 726 of 4573 (804172)
04-07-2017 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 721 by NoNukes
04-06-2017 6:03 PM


Re: Reality
Marc9000 thinks that having leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck constitutes freedom.
NoNukes thinks that leaky windows, a bad furnace, and a polluting truck are the government's business, or any liberal busybody's business, according to the Constitution. (I do have a 3 year old, high efficiency propane furnace that I paid for with my own money. I plead guilty as sin on the other two though.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 721 by NoNukes, posted 04-06-2017 6:03 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 729 of 4573 (804369)
04-08-2017 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 728 by PaulK
04-08-2017 1:02 AM


Re: This is great.
First, the fact that other presidents have changed their minds hardly proves that Trumo has not. If someone is claiming that Trump is doing everything he said he would do, providing counterexamples is a valid point.
That's true, but the counterexamples are weak if all someone wants to do is post links and then run without showing interest in discussing them in his own words.
Trump is guilty of being too impetuous in saying what he's thinking too quickly, but I don't think it's all that harmful. Showing that past presidents have done it too re-enforces that. I think he's proven that he thinks things through before he acts. Now as president, and earlier, in business.
Trump is less likely than past presidents to change his mind when confronted with a briefcase full of cash from a special interest. I wouldn't want to be a special interest representative to attempt to do that with him.
Second this is not a dramatic change in Syria. The Assad regime has used poison gas before, in the early years of this conflict. The situation is not that different - but Trump's position has changed quite significantly.
Fox News this morning was showing videos of Susan Rice, John Kerry, and Obama himself, (not too long ago), all claiming that Syria had absolutely no chemical weapons. It could have largely been those proclamations that caused Trump to make his earlier claims. This is one position change of his that is completely understandable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 728 by PaulK, posted 04-08-2017 1:02 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 731 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-08-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 733 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 1:18 AM marc9000 has replied
 Message 734 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 1:51 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 737 of 4573 (804423)
04-09-2017 1:36 PM
Reply to: Message 731 by LamarkNewAge
04-08-2017 10:48 PM


Re: My source for my special interest accusation.
LNA's link writes:
The effectiveness of these lobby groups is testimony of the power of organized groups to effect and resist change.
"Lobbying" comes from every direction. There are plenty of lobby groups that are all about promoting change which can harm society. The insurance lobby and environmental lobby are major ones.
One day, the truth will be known by all and the obvious policy solution will be correctly seen as much more free trade in every genuine sense of the words FREE and OPEN.
"Free and open" in International terms can cause a greater terrorist threat. And in the case of food, it can also mean a health threat. Those things have to be taken into consideration as well.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 731 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-08-2017 10:48 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-09-2017 2:37 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 738 of 4573 (804424)
04-09-2017 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 733 by NoNukes
04-09-2017 1:18 AM


Re: This is great.
Do you think that covers things like promising health care that give better coverage and be cheaper than the ACA was just impetuous?
Yes.
Do you know even now what Trump was thinking when he said that?
No, I'm willing to give him more than 11 weeks to get it all established.
How in the world could anyone know that?
Trump didn't seek the presidency for the money, unlike ALL of his immediate predecessors.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by NoNukes, posted 04-09-2017 1:18 AM NoNukes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 739 by jar, posted 04-09-2017 1:54 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 740 of 4573 (804426)
04-09-2017 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 734 by PaulK
04-09-2017 1:51 AM


Re: This is great.
Because proof is "weak" ? That really doesn't make sense.
Sometimes a basic, brief "proof" doesn't hold up under a thorough discussion. That's probably the reason forum rule #5 exists.
I don't think that ordering a bombing raid could be considered harmless.
The bombing raid was an action he took, not something he said. He seemed to have thought it through carefully, in addition to consulting with his cabinet beforehand.
Since we don't know the state of his finances it's hard to be certain of that.
I'm convinced that he didn't seek the presidency so he could make more money than he did, doing what he did before. His donating of his salary re-enforces that belief.
Were those before or after Syria started using gas on the rebels ?
I don't know, and it doesn't matter to me. The fact is they HAD them, and Obama officials declared they didn't.
It seems to me that the earlier gas attacks should have caused a change of position. Apparently they did not.
Earlier, as in, before he was president? Maybe so, I'm not familiar with them, their severity, or when they happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 734 by PaulK, posted 04-09-2017 1:51 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 741 of 4573 (804428)
04-09-2017 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 739 by jar
04-09-2017 1:54 PM


Re: Say what?
What makes you think Trump did not seek the position for the money since it seems so far he has only used it to make money?
He's donating his entire salary, that's not very profitable. What ways has he taken in money as president?
I think his private jet was bigger than Air Force One. He lived in a more lavish place than the White House before he became president. What makes you think he sought the presidency to make money?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 739 by jar, posted 04-09-2017 1:54 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 765 of 4573 (806891)
04-28-2017 10:13 PM


German Paper Gives Fact Check
Page not found | IJR
quote:
US media, however, are focusing on something else: they claim that Ivanka was booed and sneered at.
quote:
According to Bild, however, such claims by the media didn’t resemble what actually happened. There was no booing or heckling at all, however, Bild reports.
I heard a lot about all the hissing and booing going on when Ivanka was speaking publicly during her overseas visit. As the news media played the video clip a few days ago, I wasn't hearing it, but figured that I just had my volume too low or something. But no, now I find out it was just another U.S. News media lie.
After listening again, it now sounds to me like the crowd was murmuring in agreement with what she was saying.
How many people were again mis-lead by the lying U.S. news media? And how many more people WOKE UP to the truth about the U.S. news media?

Replies to this message:
 Message 766 by LamarkNewAge, posted 04-28-2017 10:48 PM marc9000 has not replied
 Message 771 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-02-2017 4:26 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 772 of 4573 (807390)
05-02-2017 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 771 by Dr Adequate
05-02-2017 4:26 PM


Dr. Adequate dances for the news media
In all of them the jeering is plainly audible.
In seconds 6,7, and 8, you're right. About 3 voices, maybe 4. Is that a "crowd"? To an unhinged news media, it must be!
marc9000 writes:
After listening again, it now sounds to me like the crowd was murmuring in agreement with what she was saying.
No it does not.
At the 16 second mark, the "huh huh" sounds to me like another way to say "understatement of the century".
Who knows, maybe it was more than 3 people we heard, it could have been 7 or 8 that the news media implied represent the entire German population.
But back in Message 717, I described other fake news that you haven't addressed yet, so I'll repeat it here to make sure you see it.
quote:
As I mentioned in Message 702, ABC World News Tonight on the evening of 4-3-17 had nothing to say about the political spying on Trump. To it's credit, it did address the issue on 4-4, and again tonight on 4-5, but just in ways to try to downplay it.
But tonight, my local station joined them in progress, about 1 minute into their broadcast. (the local's coverage of severe storms in my area caused the short delay.) As soon as WNT came on, the caption on the bottom of the screen read; ~Trump;"Crossed a Lot of Lines"~. The caption stayed there for over a full minute, while they talked about the chemical attack in Syria. Trump was upset about it, as any U.S. President would have been. He said the Syrian leader "crossed a lot of lines", and that he might change his position on foreign involvement because of it. They didn't seem to be putting him down for it. But they know of course, that their broadcast, in addition to being in home living rooms, is on countless thousands of Television sets at shopping malls, department stores, laundromats, sports bars etc. Places where lots of activity is going on, and chances are the volume is down, or is drowned out by other noise. How many tens of thousands of people walked by those sets, with other things on their minds, and only glanced at the caption; Trump "Crossed a Lot of Lines". Do you think they all perfectly noticed the punctuation? Or were they cleverly mislead? How many people who don't pay much attention to politics just get another slight little Trump slam etched in their minds?
Bob Woodward recently said; "Mr. President, the media is not fake news". Sorry Bob, the evidence is in. I thought you evolutionists liked evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 771 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-02-2017 4:26 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 773 by Phat, posted 05-02-2017 9:50 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 774 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-02-2017 9:56 PM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 776 of 4573 (807549)
05-03-2017 8:46 PM
Reply to: Message 773 by Phat
05-02-2017 9:50 PM


Re: Dr. Adequate dances for the news media
The media at large may well be more left oriented than center or right politically. In my opinion, they refuse to publish right wing news because they do not want to fall into the trap of giving free publicity.
There are those who say that's exactly what they did FOR Trump. Their negativity against Trump brought him publicity that he needed. He played them like a fiddle. Maybe they're just now realizing it, and that's why they're veering even more left even now that they're being exposed on it more than ever.
I don't see that the media is overly biased....I only see that they are leaning more towards the political Left rather than the Right because they are educated, and most educated people are liberals. Most business school graduates are conservatives.
That's an easy one Educated people are liberals because they got their education at liberal universities. Liberal universities give them a distorted view of actual history and human nature. Liberal college professors have an easy time showing students ON PAPER how much better socialism is than free markets. It might work on paper, but history shows it doesn't work nearly as well in the real world.
We have shifted politically as a nation and are now concentrating on making money and allies who will help that interest. Globalism is a real fear for many people.
I agree we've shifted politically, but the U.S. has for 75 years or more concentrated on making money. The big recent shift has been so much more of the population demanding more and more routine living expenses be paid by society at large. Today's demand for free health care would have been laughable only 50 years ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 773 by Phat, posted 05-02-2017 9:50 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 780 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-03-2017 10:15 PM marc9000 has replied
 Message 781 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-04-2017 1:07 AM marc9000 has replied

  
marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 777 of 4573 (807550)
05-03-2017 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 774 by Dr Adequate
05-02-2017 9:56 PM


Re: Marc Exhibits His Symptoms
How did you count them?
I listened with my ears. It wasn't that big of a crowd, it was a room with a few dozen people at the most. It was apparently mostly if not all German journalists. No one notable, no big politicians, no recognizable names at all, except for those speakers like Ivanka. And the jeers from a small handful of them made national news. That's probably a first for the U.S. news media.
You're referring here to Trump's unsubstantiated accusations against Obama? What do you expect, nightly updates?
Well, for a long period we got nightly updates about liberal unsubstantiated accusations that Russia somehow saw to it that Trump won the election. Just tonight, we got breathless updates on ABC WORLD NEWS TONIGHT WITH DAVID MUIR, on unsubstantiated accusations that James Comey is now fully responsible for Hillary's loss, resulting in Trump's win. Nightly updates happen free, for liberal propaganda.
OMG, Marc. They broadcast the truth, and while doing so they provided an accurate caption, but --- with what devilish cunning!
That's it exactly, they couldn't be called on a lie. The headline ~Trump; "Crossed a lot of lines"~, was exactly true, in that Trump SAID Assad crossed a lot of lines. The news was that Trump, and most of the civilized world, U.S. liberal politicians included believe it or not, thought that Assad did a terrible thing by using chemical weapons on his own people, very small children included.
I've never taken an involved journalism class, but in high school English class we got some basics on how newspaper columns are supposed to work. We were taught that a news article with a headline and detailed description will be read very thoroughly by some readers, while other readers will only skim the headline and move on. And everything in between. Each sentence, if not each word, will be read progressively less as the article goes on. So the idea is to write it so the headline and the first few sentences are only basically informative, while more and more detail is included deeper and deeper into the article. Last parts of the article should never contradict what the beginning says, it should just re-inforce it.
News reports on television are similar, the detailed talk going on should follow the basics that a caption provides. So the basic story was that Assad gassed his people, and most of the civilized world including Trump, criticized him for it. So we have the headline;
quote:
Trump;"Crossed a lot of lines"
As a non-journalist, let me pull another one out of thin air;
quote:
Assad crossed a lot of lines.
Now let me identify them as I give you a multiple choice question;
A) Trump;"Crossed A Lot Of Lines.
B)Assad Crossed A Lot Of Lines.
Which headline do you believe most accurately portrayed Assad's gassing of his own people? You can choose A, you can choose B, or you can call me names. Or maybe you could get a CROWD of your green dot providers to help you. Oh wait, there wasn't a crowd, there was only 3, about the same "crowd" that hissed and booed and jeered the ugly Ivanka.
I look forward to your thoughtful, honest response.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 774 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-02-2017 9:56 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 783 of 4573 (807687)
05-04-2017 8:05 PM
Reply to: Message 780 by LamarkNewAge
05-03-2017 10:15 PM


Re: Dr. Adequate dances for the news media
You assume that there are no pro-growth arguments for issues like free daycare, single payer healthcare, and free college.
I know the arguments are there. But doing them at the federal level isn't constitutional, without some serious amending of the constitution, or nationwide issue votes.
TRUMP ISSUE
Thank you, that's the thread's topic.
Trump being attacked is no proof of liberal bias. He is often attacked for being too anti war. Hillary Clinton just attacked him for his heretical willingness to engage in unilateral talks with North Korea. He was attacked for his opposition to overthrowing Assad too.
The media attempted to sink him in the GOP primary and they did so in a way that made the other GOP radicals seem moderate or at least that's the way the media presentation went. The media thought Trump would collapse so they thought they were helping the eventual GOP nominee.
This would all be going on (in a much milder form) with any newly elected Republican president. It's so much more intense against Trump because there is so much jealousy of him. Some because of his past business success, and as much or more because he's a 70 year old billionaire who still has plenty of ambition to accomplish more in his life.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 780 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-03-2017 10:15 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 784 of 4573 (807688)
05-04-2017 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 781 by LamarkNewAge
05-04-2017 1:07 AM


Re: Total healthcare spending in other countries less than government alone pays here.
In defense of your post Marc9000, I must admit that the right wing echo chamber always seems to be in the thick of the woods TOTALLY LOST on the economic growth that a typical single payer healthcare system would bring. The confusion you have displayed clearly is due to your listening to the echo chamber uncritically.
That echo chamber is the Constitution. It's not a socialist document, it's just not.
Those on the left know it's not, so they have a choice - they can try to propose serious amendments to it or eliminate it and replace it completely, or they can pretend that it is flexible enough to accommodate all the socialism that someone like Bernie Sanders favors. They've obviously chosen the latter - it's easier for them to be sneaky and dishonest than it is to risk the serious attention and upheaval they'd get it they tried to claim the Constitution needs replacing because it's outdated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 781 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-04-2017 1:07 AM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 829 of 4573 (809278)
05-17-2017 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 826 by Chiroptera
05-17-2017 9:49 AM


Re: What Republicans say: then and now
For those who want to keep score: which Republicans keep to a consistent message, and which ones will start the "yabbuts"?
Here are the two Washington Post headlines, for the same actions;
[June 30th, 2016, for Obama] "U.S. offers to share Syria intelligence on terrorists with Russia."
[May 15th, 2017, for Trump]"Trump revealed highly classified information to Russian diplomats."
A lot of people are keeping score of news media bias.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 826 by Chiroptera, posted 05-17-2017 9:49 AM Chiroptera has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 830 by Taq, posted 05-17-2017 5:50 PM marc9000 has not replied
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marc9000
Member
Posts: 1509
From: Ky U.S.
Joined: 12-25-2009
Member Rating: 1.4


(1)
Message 1024 of 4573 (816580)
08-06-2017 4:38 PM


Trump's accomplishments
quote:
What Has Trump Done Since Taking Office?
Only...
01. Supreme Court Judge Gorsuch
02. 59 missiles dropped in Syria.
03. He took us out of ‘TPP'
04. Illegal immigration is now down 70% (the lowest in 17 years)
05. Consumer confidence highest since 2000 at index 125.6
06. Mortgage applications for new homes rise to a 7 year high.
07. Arranged 20% Tariff on soft lumber from Canada.
08. Bids for border wall are well underway.
09. Pulled out of the lopsided 'Paris Accord'.
10. Keystone pipeline approved.
11. NATO allies boost spending by 4.3%
12. Allowing VA to terminate bad employees.
13. Allowing private healthcare choices for veterans.
14. More than 600,000. Jobs created
15. Median household income at a 7 year high.
16. The Stock Market is at the highest ever In its history.
17. China agreed to American import of beef.
18. $89 Billion saved in regulation rollbacks.
19. Rollback of A Regulation to boost coal mining.
20. MOAB for ISIS
21. Travel ban reinstated.
22. Executive order for religious freedom.
23. Jump started NASA
24. $600 million cut from UN peacekeeping budget.
25. Targeting of MS13 gangs
26. Deporting violent illegal immigrants.
27. Signed 41 bills to date
28. Created a commission on child trafficking
29. Created a commission on voter fraud
30. Created a commission for opioids addiction.
31. Giving power to states to drug test unemployment recipients.
32. Unemployment lowest since May 2007.
33. Historic Black College University initiative
34. Women In Entrepreneurship Act
35. Created an office for illegal immigrant crime victims.
36. Reversed Dodd-Frank
37. Repealed DOT ruling which would have taken power away from local governments for infrastructure planning
38. Order to stop crime against law enforcement.
39. End of DAPA program.
40. Stopped companies from moving out of America.
41. Promoted businesses to create American Jobs.
42. Encouraged country to once again 'Buy Americanand HireAmerican!
43. Cutting regulations 2 for every one created
44. Review of all trade agreements to make sure they are America First
45. Apprentice program
46. Highest manufacturing surge in 3 years.
47. $78 Billion promised reinvestment from major businesses like Exxon, Bayer, Apple, SoftBank, Toyota...
48. Denied FBI a new building.
49. $700 million saved with F-35 renegotiation.
50.Saves $22 million by reducing white house payroll.
51. Dept of treasury reports a $182 billion surplus for April 2017 (2nd largest in history.)
52. Negotiated the release of 6 US humanitarian workers held captive in Egypt.
53. Gas prices lowest in more than 12 years.
54. Signed An Executive Order To Promote Energy Independence And Economic Growth
55. President Trump has worked with Congress to pass more legislation in his first 100 daysthan any President since Truman.
56. Has already accomplished more to stop government interference into people's lives than any President in the history of America.
57. Has given head executive of each branches 6 month time Frame dated March 15, 2017, to trim the fat, restructure and improve efficacy of their branch
How about some line-by-line liberal rebuttals? Some you'll have an easy time with, others not so much.

Replies to this message:
 Message 1025 by Phat, posted 08-07-2017 9:59 AM marc9000 has replied
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 Message 1027 by NoNukes, posted 08-07-2017 1:42 PM marc9000 has replied
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