Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
0 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,817 Year: 3,074/9,624 Month: 919/1,588 Week: 102/223 Day: 13/17 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 901 of 1006 (807726)
05-05-2017 6:39 AM
Reply to: Message 876 by vimesey
05-03-2017 6:09 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
vimesey writes:
societies come to a consensus as to what is and isn't moral
Your answer offers nothing in the way of a solution as to how one can prove a certain moral is correct. Consensus proves nothing in this respect. All concensus does is provide the power for a certain code of morality to become enshrined in law which allows that code of morality to then be imposed on others.
If a society on one side of the planet outlaws same-sex marriage and a society on the other side of the planet allows same-sex marriage, how do you determine which law is correct?
Billions of Hindus believe it is immoral to kill a cow and eat it, but billions of Westerners say it isn't immoral. How do you determine which opinion is correct?
In ancient Roman society, it was not considered immoral to feed Christians to lions. In today's Roman society, it is considered immoral to feed Christians to lions. How do you prove which society was/is morally correct?
If one society approves of euthanasia and another society doesn't, how do you prove which society is morally correct?
In other words, a society's code of morality is no easier to prove correctthan an individual's code of morality.
I have a moral code of which I am proud.
Big deal. Adolf Hitler probably said the same thing.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 876 by vimesey, posted 05-03-2017 6:09 AM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 904 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 7:13 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 913 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 9:43 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 915 by ringo, posted 05-05-2017 11:56 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 917 by vimesey, posted 05-05-2017 1:51 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 902 of 1006 (807729)
05-05-2017 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 875 by Dr Adequate
05-03-2017 2:57 AM


I can demonstrate my point by using The Parable of the Empty Box:
An empty box is an empty box. Only a deluded/dysfunctional mind sees something in an empty box.
This is a very deep concept, so don't get discouraged if you don't initially understand it. But persevere and keep thinking about it - finally the penny will drop.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 875 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-03-2017 2:57 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 903 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 7:08 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 918 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 1:56 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 903 of 1006 (807733)
05-05-2017 7:08 AM
Reply to: Message 902 by Dredge
05-05-2017 6:46 AM


OMG, you keep on with words salads. Even after you've been pointed out the untruths you told. You deny the untruths you told. Even after those untruths told by you were demonstrated to be untruths. I think that you are completely crazy.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 902 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 6:46 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 904 of 1006 (807734)
05-05-2017 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 901 by Dredge
05-05-2017 6:39 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
This one is funny.
Dredge writes:
Your answer offers nothing in the way of a solution as to how one can prove a certain moral is correct.
Sure can.
Don't discriminate against me because of my age... with my experience I train less experienced younger people to be experienced.
For me that's correct morals because after me other people will take the job later...
Hopefully they would overtake me in my knowledge and experience later.
That's how humans advance.
That's my morals. I'm not too sure whether it's correct, because morals are subjective, but I hope that's how it works. I'll try to relay my knowledge to the younger generation. Any problems with that?
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 6:39 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 905 of 1006 (807736)
05-05-2017 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 895 by Dr Adequate
05-04-2017 9:00 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
At any rate he was a theist and a creationist.
A citation please.
-------------------------------
Hitler was a baptised Catholic, but so what? What has Nazism got to do with Catholicism?
In his writings (and probaby his speeches) he made references to "God Almighty", for example, but one has to consider that he was a con-man trying to a appeal to a Christian society. Jim Jones initiallly used the cloak of Christianity in his "ministry", but it turns out he was a Communist!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 895 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-04-2017 9:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 907 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 7:37 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 919 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 2:03 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 921 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 2:10 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 906 of 1006 (807737)
05-05-2017 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 899 by Tangle
05-04-2017 2:21 PM


Re: Let's start over.
I know what you're getting at, but you can't separate reality into separate compartments. Darwinism is an idea that has undeniable ontological implications. This is obvioius from the contrasting reactions of clerics and athesits to Darwin's book after it was published.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 899 by Tangle, posted 05-04-2017 2:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 922 by Tangle, posted 05-05-2017 3:25 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 923 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 3:34 PM Dredge has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 907 of 1006 (807738)
05-05-2017 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 905 by Dredge
05-05-2017 7:27 AM


Dredge writes:
Jim Jones initiallly used the cloak of Christianity in his "ministry", but it turns out he was a Communist!
While Jim Jones may or may not have been a Communist just like Jesus, he definitely was a Christian while Jesus unlike Jim Jones was never a Christian.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 905 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 7:27 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 910 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 7:57 AM jar has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 908 of 1006 (807739)
05-05-2017 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 900 by Pressie
05-05-2017 6:09 AM


Re: Let's start over.
Provine was not a scientist, but an historian specializing in science, evolutionary biology and population genetics, and was respected as a philosopher. He held the position of Professor at Cornell University. I quoted him as an "evolutionary scientist" - my mistake. What your point?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 900 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 6:09 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 911 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 8:04 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 909 of 1006 (807740)
05-05-2017 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 897 by Porosity
05-04-2017 9:17 AM


Re: Let's start over.
A true theist wouldn't be put off by the errors and failings of religious people. Besides, theism and religion can be mutually exclusive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by Porosity, posted 05-04-2017 9:17 AM Porosity has not replied

  
Dredge
Member
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 910 of 1006 (807741)
05-05-2017 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 907 by jar
05-05-2017 7:37 AM


Wiki' describes Jones as "an American comminist and cult leader". If he was also a Christian, he was a very poor example of one.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 7:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 912 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 8:04 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 920 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 2:06 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 911 of 1006 (807742)
05-05-2017 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 908 by Dredge
05-05-2017 7:45 AM


Re: Let's start over.
So, you lied about Provine. Check your sources before placing things like that here.
You will be caught out when telling untruths.
Remember that creationists always tell untruths. Every time.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 908 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 7:45 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 925 by Dredge, posted 05-06-2017 2:14 AM Pressie has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 912 of 1006 (807743)
05-05-2017 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 910 by Dredge
05-05-2017 7:57 AM


Yup. Lots of poor examples of Christians out there. But then no movement has been more effective at Genocide than Christianity although the US is certainly pretty close.
Christians are good and bad just like any other segment of the population.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 910 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 7:57 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 913 of 1006 (807754)
05-05-2017 9:43 AM
Reply to: Message 901 by Dredge
05-05-2017 6:39 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
I have a moral code of which I am proud.
Big deal. Adolf Hitler probably said the same thing.
How was the response to Hitler different between evolutionists and creationists?
Today, what is the difference between evolutionists and creationists when they look back on Hitler?

Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 6:39 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 914 by Davidjay, posted 05-05-2017 11:33 AM Chiroptera has replied
 Message 942 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2017 3:03 AM Chiroptera has replied

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2329 days)
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 914 of 1006 (807769)
05-05-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 913 by Chiroptera
05-05-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
How was the response to Hitler different between evolutionists and creationists?
Today, what is the difference between evolutionists and creationists when they look back on Hitler?
ANSWER Hitler used evolutionary theory as a basis for his rascism and inbreeding camps where he got German teens to copulate to bring on a 'superior race'. Furthermore, Hitler used evolutionary theory to give the basis for the extermination of minorities whether it was poor Jews, or gypsies or gays, etc etc.....
Creationism is centered around the equality of races, and as such rejects absolutely racism in all its forms. Jesus is and was against racism.
Churchianity and religion on the other hand is in bed with the political power of the day, no matter how evil it is.

.
The Lord is the GREAT SCIENTIST as He created SCIENCE and ALL LAWS and ALL MATTER and of course ALL LIFE. God is the Great Architect, Designer and Mathematician. Evolutioon is not mathematical and says there is no DESIGN but that all things came about by sheer LUCK.
.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 9:43 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 916 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 1:44 PM Davidjay has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 915 of 1006 (807777)
05-05-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 901 by Dredge
05-05-2017 6:39 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
Dredge writes:
Your answer offers nothing in the way of a solution as to how one can prove a certain moral is correct.
You have the wrong idea about "correctness". There is no absolutely correct or incorrect handed down to us by some alien overlord. What is "correct" in a given situation is what works in that situation. Since situations vary from place to place and from time to time, it's only natural that morals also vary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 901 by Dredge, posted 05-05-2017 6:39 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 943 by Dredge, posted 05-08-2017 3:29 AM ringo has replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024