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Author Topic:   Atheism Cannot Rationally Explain Morals.
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 905 of 1006 (807736)
05-05-2017 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 895 by Dr Adequate
05-04-2017 9:00 AM


Dr Adequate writes:
At any rate he was a theist and a creationist.
A citation please.
-------------------------------
Hitler was a baptised Catholic, but so what? What has Nazism got to do with Catholicism?
In his writings (and probaby his speeches) he made references to "God Almighty", for example, but one has to consider that he was a con-man trying to a appeal to a Christian society. Jim Jones initiallly used the cloak of Christianity in his "ministry", but it turns out he was a Communist!
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 895 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-04-2017 9:00 AM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 907 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 7:37 AM Dredge has replied
 Message 919 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 2:03 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 921 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 2:10 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 906 of 1006 (807737)
05-05-2017 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 899 by Tangle
05-04-2017 2:21 PM


Re: Let's start over.
I know what you're getting at, but you can't separate reality into separate compartments. Darwinism is an idea that has undeniable ontological implications. This is obvioius from the contrasting reactions of clerics and athesits to Darwin's book after it was published.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 899 by Tangle, posted 05-04-2017 2:21 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 922 by Tangle, posted 05-05-2017 3:25 PM Dredge has replied
 Message 923 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 3:34 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 908 of 1006 (807739)
05-05-2017 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 900 by Pressie
05-05-2017 6:09 AM


Re: Let's start over.
Provine was not a scientist, but an historian specializing in science, evolutionary biology and population genetics, and was respected as a philosopher. He held the position of Professor at Cornell University. I quoted him as an "evolutionary scientist" - my mistake. What your point?
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 900 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 6:09 AM Pressie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 911 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 8:04 AM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 909 of 1006 (807740)
05-05-2017 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 897 by Porosity
05-04-2017 9:17 AM


Re: Let's start over.
A true theist wouldn't be put off by the errors and failings of religious people. Besides, theism and religion can be mutually exclusive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 897 by Porosity, posted 05-04-2017 9:17 AM Porosity has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 910 of 1006 (807741)
05-05-2017 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 907 by jar
05-05-2017 7:37 AM


Wiki' describes Jones as "an American comminist and cult leader". If he was also a Christian, he was a very poor example of one.
Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 907 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 7:37 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 912 by jar, posted 05-05-2017 8:04 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 920 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 2:06 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 925 of 1006 (807842)
05-06-2017 2:14 AM
Reply to: Message 911 by Pressie
05-05-2017 8:04 AM


Re: Let's start over.
Nice try, but I didn't lie about Provine; I was relying on memory for that part of the quote. Has your memory ever let you down?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 911 by Pressie, posted 05-05-2017 8:04 AM Pressie has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 937 of 1006 (808010)
05-08-2017 2:44 AM
Reply to: Message 917 by vimesey
05-05-2017 1:51 PM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
In post #901, I asked you a few questions pertaining to the relevance of proving morality, and you haven't attempted to answer any of them.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 917 by vimesey, posted 05-05-2017 1:51 PM vimesey has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 944 by vimesey, posted 05-08-2017 3:35 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 938 of 1006 (808011)
05-08-2017 2:47 AM
Reply to: Message 919 by Dr Adequate
05-05-2017 2:03 PM


I thank you for the Hitler quotes. They certainly suggest he was some kind of creationist. But who knows if he was being sincere or merely pandering to a theistic audience?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 919 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 2:03 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 952 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-08-2017 10:38 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 956 by Chiroptera, posted 05-08-2017 10:58 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 939 of 1006 (808012)
05-08-2017 2:50 AM
Reply to: Message 922 by Tangle
05-05-2017 3:25 PM


Re: Let's start over.
Tangle writes:
As did the discoveries of geology and astrology ... they proved the errors of primitive, superstitious thinking.
... a small detail you seemed to have overlooked - you can't equate empirical evidence with the theory of Common Descent. That's drawing a very long bow.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 922 by Tangle, posted 05-05-2017 3:25 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 945 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2017 3:51 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 940 of 1006 (808013)
05-08-2017 2:54 AM
Reply to: Message 923 by Dr Adequate
05-05-2017 3:34 PM


Re: Let's start over.
Dr Adequate writes:
What do you think "ontological" means?
Ontology is word I made up and it relates to the philosophical study of the nature of being, becoming, existence or reality.
(Another word I made up that appeared in one of my posts is Psychomosis, which describes the transfer of thoughts from one person's brain to another person's brain, through the air.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 923 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-05-2017 3:34 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 941 by NoNukes, posted 05-08-2017 3:00 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 942 of 1006 (808017)
05-08-2017 3:03 AM
Reply to: Message 913 by Chiroptera
05-05-2017 9:43 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
In answer to your questions:
1. I don't know.
2. I don't know.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 913 by Chiroptera, posted 05-05-2017 9:43 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 948 by Chiroptera, posted 05-08-2017 9:02 AM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 943 of 1006 (808022)
05-08-2017 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 915 by ringo
05-05-2017 11:56 AM


Re: Evolutionists can not explain morals
Ringo writes:
Since situations vary from place to place and time to time, it's only natural that morals also vary.
Good point - just look at the situation where Hitler decided the morally correct solution was to murder 6 million Jews. And also consider the Khmer Rouge, who accessed the situation and thought the right thing to do was to kill 5 millions Cambodians. Evidently, morality can be whatever you want it to be; you just make it up as you go along.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 915 by ringo, posted 05-05-2017 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 946 by jar, posted 05-08-2017 7:13 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 947 by Chiroptera, posted 05-08-2017 8:59 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 949 by Tangle, posted 05-08-2017 9:35 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 958 by ringo, posted 05-08-2017 12:02 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 964 of 1006 (808199)
05-09-2017 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 935 by Dogmafood
05-07-2017 7:06 PM


Re: Quibbles the quibbler
ProtoTypical writes:
We practice and enforce morality because we realise that doing so is directly beneficial to ourselves.
... or beneficial to society, as well, I would say. Consider Hitler, who believed murdering 6 million Jews would offer a direct benefit to society.
Also consider the Khmer Rouge, who believed murdering 5 million Cambodians would offer a direct benefit to society. Then there's ISIS, who thinking slaughtering infidels offers a direct benefit to society.
Morality can be whatever you want it to be.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 935 by Dogmafood, posted 05-07-2017 7:06 PM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 966 by Tangle, posted 05-09-2017 4:31 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 967 by Taq, posted 05-09-2017 11:57 AM Dredge has not replied
 Message 968 by ringo, posted 05-09-2017 12:32 PM Dredge has not replied
 Message 969 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-09-2017 12:35 PM Dredge has not replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 965 of 1006 (808201)
05-09-2017 3:40 AM
Reply to: Message 928 by RAZD
05-06-2017 10:11 AM


Re: Creationist summary? vs rationalist summary
RAZD writes:
for the preservation of the group
Why do think preservation of the group is important?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 928 by RAZD, posted 05-06-2017 10:11 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 970 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2017 1:12 PM Dredge has replied

  
Dredge
Member (Idle past 95 days)
Posts: 2850
From: Australia
Joined: 09-06-2016


Message 971 of 1006 (808317)
05-10-2017 3:48 AM
Reply to: Message 961 by Taq
05-08-2017 2:47 PM


So which religion did Hitler follow?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 961 by Taq, posted 05-08-2017 2:47 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 982 by Taq, posted 05-10-2017 10:48 AM Dredge has replied

  
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