EvC Forum: Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.

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Topic: Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.

CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

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From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 139 of 1311 (808177)
05-08-2017 8:25 PM

Reply to: Message 134 by Taq
05-08-2017 12:36 PM

The Entropy = Information Mistake

I guess you didn't read the article. Here's a link to another article written for the less technically minded like me. Fingerprints of an Intelligent Programmer: The Entropy = Information Mistake | Evolution News

"Bottom line: As the Shannon entropy required for functionality increases, the amount of functional information required to satisfy functionality decreasesquite the opposite of what some scientists mistakenly assert.
...
Entropy does not produce functional information, at least not any statistically significant level of functional information."

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 142 of 1311 (808189)
05-09-2017 1:24 AM

Reply to: Message 140 by Coyote
05-08-2017 8:42 PM

Re: Wedge Document

The Wedge Document: So What?

I see the NSCE propaganda continues to equate ID with Creationism. As a YEC I can tell you that the people at the Discovery Institute are not Young Earth Creationists. Since they've had a running disagreement with Biologos they're not theistic evolutionists either.

I think you're just using an ad hominem to avoid the scientific issues raised.

Edited by CRR, : added

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 151 of 1311 (808200)
05-09-2017 3:38 AM

Reply to: Message 150 by Tangle
05-09-2017 3:06 AM

Re: What mechanism stops evolutionary change?

As I said at Message 802, We will never know the true history of the flood!

But that's another topic.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 177 of 1311 (808486)
05-11-2017 7:29 AM

Reply to: Message 174 by Taq
05-10-2017 10:43 AM

Taq writes:
I have been taught that theories supported by mountains of evidence are solid theories. Is this not correct?

Many people say that evolution is fact and that there is a mountain of evidence to prove it. Should Christians just cave in and admit that Genesis is a myth? This episode [Creation magazine Live] examines and refutes key evolution evidences such as:
● Embryo similarity
● The Miller/Urey experiment
● Peppered Moths
● Homology
● Horse evolution
● Fossil record
● Dinosaurs
● Archaeopteryx
● Whale evolution
● Tiktaalik
● Vestigial organs
● Ape men
● Natural selection
● Mutations
● Chimp/human DNA 98% similarity
● Junk DNA

Edited by CRR, : No reason given.

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	Message 194 by Dredge, posted 05-14-2017 5:13 AM	CRR has replied

CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 179 of 1311 (808499)
05-11-2017 8:55 AM

Reply to: Message 178 by jar
05-11-2017 8:06 AM

Re: Honest Christians should.

CRR writes:

Should Christians just cave in and admit that Genesis is a myth?

Quote Mining!

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 201 of 1311 (809064)
05-16-2017 5:58 AM

Reply to: Message 194 by Dredge
05-14-2017 5:13 AM

a few bones

I like the way some paleontologists take a few bones and construct a entire creature out it - maybe even a "transitional".

Perhaps you're thinking of Pakicetus?

Top left: Gingerich’s first reconstruction.
Bottom left: what he had actually found
Top right: more complete skeleton
Bottom right: more reasonable reconstruction

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 209 of 1311 (809209)
05-17-2017 5:54 AM

Reply to: Message 206 by jar
05-16-2017 6:30 PM

Laetoli Footprints

the [Laetoli] foot prints do not correspond to modern foot prints

Yes they do. According to Laetoli Footprints they are in fact "hardly distinguishable from those of modern humans."
Others have said they are indistinguishable from footprints of modern humans from that area who habitually go barefoot.

I can remember when Lucy and the Laetoli prints were promoted hand in hand as proof that these were human ancestors. We now know that Australopithecus had apelike feet and almost certainly was not an obligate biped; i.e. Lucy was an ape.

A track of human footprints strongly suggests the trail was made by humans. Well that's the most logical conclusion.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 211 of 1311 (809211)
05-17-2017 7:10 AM

Reply to: Message 210 by jar
05-17-2017 6:44 AM

Re: Laetoli Footprints

They are indistinguishable from footprints of modern humans from that area who habitually go barefoot. They can be distinguished from tracks of Western people who usually wear shoes.

The human footprints exist.
The Australopithecine fossils exist.
They were found in the same general area.
The Australopithecines did not make the footprints.

What made a trail of human footprints?

This question is only difficult for people who don't like the obvious answer.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 274 of 1311 (809766)
05-20-2017 10:49 PM

Reply to: Message 244 by Tanypteryx
05-17-2017 8:13 PM

Re: your ass.

You must have pulled this one right out of your ass.

Perhaps you mean "your arse". Dredge and I are Australians. Over here an ass is close relative of the horse; but an arse is a body orifice for excreting solid waste.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 275 of 1311 (809768)
05-20-2017 10:54 PM

Reply to: Message 269 by Coyote
05-20-2017 6:27 PM

Re: Useful applications of evolutionary theory and processes

Visualize walking from SF to NY, then to London, UK. Microevolution allows you to explore the limits of the available gene pool; but beyond that you need macroevolution. Microevolution + Time ≠ Macroevolution.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 278 of 1311 (809771)
05-20-2017 11:20 PM

Reply to: Message 276 by Coyote
05-20-2017 11:02 PM

Re: Useful applications of evolutionary theory and processes

No I'm not. If mutation adds statistically significant amounts of functional information then it is macroevolution.
Microevolution does not add statistically significant amounts of functional information.

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CRR

Member (Idle past 2268 days)

Posts: 579

From: Australia

Joined: 10-19-2016

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Message 281 of 1311 (809775)
05-20-2017 11:46 PM

Reply to: Message 280 by Coyote
05-20-2017 11:30 PM

Micro/Macro-evolution

Consider this quote

Population geneticists use a different definition of evolution: a change in allele frequencies among generations. This meaning is quite different to the original [and] is roughly equivalent to microevolution*. Unfortunately [this] often results in an overemphasis on changes in allele frequencies and an underemphasis (or no consideration of) the origin of the different alleles.
Endler, John A., Natural Selection in the Wild, Princeton University Press, New Jersey, USA, 1986. p7
* emphasis added

You can get any amount of change in allele frequencies among generations and still end up with the same (or less) alleles that you started with; in which case it does not result in macroevolution.

Part of the problem is that there are no universally agreed definitions of what constitutes micro and macroevolution. Depending on definitions we could both be right, or wrong.