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Author | Topic: PC Gone Too Far | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't get your problem. Do you think misrepresentation is some kind of honorable debate technique? If you can't find something to argue with, then just spin what someone wrote into something disagreeable. They'll surely respond to correct you, and now you've got someone to argue with.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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Those judgments are our conclusions after our analysis of history. Bingo. After the analysis. When we're analyzing it, set your judgements aside for a minute.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Funny thing is that back when I was in school, we learned pretty well how horrible slavery was, how Southern culture was based deeply upon the horrors of slavery, and how national politics was dominated by the issue of slavery right up to the Civil War. And we learned this in...southeast Alaska where we had no Confederate monuments at all. In fact, the people fighting to keep the monuments? They are the ones trying to whitewash history and present the antebellum South as some kind of Uncle Reemus fantasy land. The ones who are trying to remove the symbols and monuments glorifying the "Lost Cause" are the ones trying to maintain an appropriate focus on the real horror in our actual history. Just curious: How do you know? That is, how do you know that you're right that they're really trying to hide their true selves and are not being honest, and that your, far-removed, perspective is actually the correct one? 'Cause at face-value; I'll believe them over you, no offense.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't think there is a question regarding honesty here. It was right there in the post I replied to:
quote: There's a real horrific actual history that southerners are trying to hide with a fantasy... I'm not buying it, but the claim is there.
I am willing to take the protests of the statue supporters at face value. But the question of whether their views are historically correct and whether the 'Lost Cause' view of the civil war is incorrect is a question that has largely been decided by academics and historians. If they are simply wrong about the facts of the matter, then they're not trying to hide the real horror of actual history by whitewashing it with a fantasy - they're just wrong (I'm not convinced that they are, but that's beside the point).
The history that these folks revere is horrific and the culture they celebrate, barbaric and completely inseparable from the worst abuse this side of the holocaust. Just like most of history... The American Revolution, Columbus discovering America, etc. It was brutal and horrific, yes. Let's not hide that.
Even if folks are honest about celebrating only the heroic portions of that history, then celebrations are a white-wash regardless of honest intent or honorable motives. Perhaps, but it assumes you're correct about the history.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'm buying it. There's a lot of denial and self-delusion involved but white Southerners are definitely trying to sweep real history under the rug in favor of something less painful and more "glorious". Ok, that's a similar claim: So, where's the evidence?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
New Cat's Eye writes:
What would constitute evidence of self-delusion? Ok, that's a similar claim: So, where's the evidence? You tell me - what are you basing your conclusion on?
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I admit it's not so much for history as much as it's to see the good ol' boys scream. Ah, so you don't know; you're just prejudiced
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'm a bad bat. Well, stop being bitter and start getting better. Disregarding peoples' feelings on a matter and replacing it with an assumption that they are just masking their hate, is a sign of you improperly dealing with your own hate. But it's all too easy: You don't have to actually think about and address their position if you can just brush them aside with "Nah man, they just hate black people." That is prejudice and it doen't help. Here, listen to some country music:
quote:
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Now they're talking about removing the confederate monument in Forrest Park in St. Louis.
*sigh* I guess I gotta go buy a torch...
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Did you know that Seattle has a statue of Lenin?
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia It's on private property, but still.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
It's on private property, but still. I think that is an important distinction. Meh, people are bitching about how offended they are by the sight of these statues, and the property they're on can't really affect that much if they're in sight.
It is certainly understandable that someone may protest against a statue of intolerant dictator who set up a horrible totalitarian regime. That they're not is what is telling
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member
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This was a good read:
Transcript of New Orleans Mayor Landrieu’s address on Confederate monuments | The Pulse It's the mayor of New Orleans explaining why they took the monuments down. I don't really care if a city want to remove monuments, but I did think it was a pretty dumb thing to do. Reading the mayors explanation changed my mind some, and I don't think it's that dumb. It's not really something that I care about, but they can do what they want - and the reasoning wasn't bad and isn't really disagreeable.
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