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Author Topic:   PC Gone Too Far
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 407 of 734 (786480)
06-22-2016 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 405 by Percy
06-22-2016 8:53 AM


Re: Evil cultures
I don't get your problem. Do you think misrepresentation is some kind of honorable debate technique?
If you can't find something to argue with, then just spin what someone wrote into something disagreeable. They'll surely respond to correct you, and now you've got someone to argue with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 405 by Percy, posted 06-22-2016 8:53 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 432 of 734 (786584)
06-23-2016 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 430 by NoNukes
06-23-2016 2:37 PM


Re: Evil cultures
Those judgments are our conclusions after our analysis of history.
Bingo. After the analysis.
When we're analyzing it, set your judgements aside for a minute.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 430 by NoNukes, posted 06-23-2016 2:37 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by NoNukes, posted 06-23-2016 4:37 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 437 by xongsmith, posted 06-23-2016 11:36 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 693 of 734 (808918)
05-14-2017 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 692 by Chiroptera
05-14-2017 9:17 PM


Funny thing is that back when I was in school, we learned pretty well how horrible slavery was, how Southern culture was based deeply upon the horrors of slavery, and how national politics was dominated by the issue of slavery right up to the Civil War. And we learned this in...southeast Alaska where we had no Confederate monuments at all.
In fact, the people fighting to keep the monuments? They are the ones trying to whitewash history and present the antebellum South as some kind of Uncle Reemus fantasy land.
The ones who are trying to remove the symbols and monuments glorifying the "Lost Cause" are the ones trying to maintain an appropriate focus on the real horror in our actual history.
Just curious: How do you know?
That is, how do you know that you're right that they're really trying to hide their true selves and are not being honest, and that your, far-removed, perspective is actually the correct one?
'Cause at face-value; I'll believe them over you, no offense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 692 by Chiroptera, posted 05-14-2017 9:17 PM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 694 by NoNukes, posted 05-14-2017 11:23 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 695 of 734 (808971)
05-15-2017 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 694 by NoNukes
05-14-2017 11:23 PM


I don't think there is a question regarding honesty here.
It was right there in the post I replied to:
quote:
In fact, the people fighting to keep the monuments? They are the ones trying to whitewash history and present the antebellum South as some kind of Uncle Reemus fantasy land.
The ones who are trying to remove the symbols and monuments glorifying the "Lost Cause" are the ones trying to maintain an appropriate focus on the real horror in our actual history.
There's a real horrific actual history that southerners are trying to hide with a fantasy... I'm not buying it, but the claim is there.
I am willing to take the protests of the statue supporters at face value. But the question of whether their views are historically correct and whether the 'Lost Cause' view of the civil war is incorrect is a question that has largely been decided by academics and historians.
If they are simply wrong about the facts of the matter, then they're not trying to hide the real horror of actual history by whitewashing it with a fantasy - they're just wrong (I'm not convinced that they are, but that's beside the point).
The history that these folks revere is horrific and the culture they celebrate, barbaric and completely inseparable from the worst abuse this side of the holocaust.
Just like most of history...
The American Revolution, Columbus discovering America, etc. It was brutal and horrific, yes. Let's not hide that.
Even if folks are honest about celebrating only the heroic portions of that history, then celebrations are a white-wash regardless of honest intent or honorable motives.
Perhaps, but it assumes you're correct about the history.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 694 by NoNukes, posted 05-14-2017 11:23 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 696 by ringo, posted 05-15-2017 12:12 PM New Cat's Eye has replied
 Message 699 by NoNukes, posted 05-15-2017 12:53 PM New Cat's Eye has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 697 of 734 (809004)
05-15-2017 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 696 by ringo
05-15-2017 12:12 PM


I'm buying it. There's a lot of denial and self-delusion involved but white Southerners are definitely trying to sweep real history under the rug in favor of something less painful and more "glorious".
Ok, that's a similar claim: So, where's the evidence?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 696 by ringo, posted 05-15-2017 12:12 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 698 by ringo, posted 05-15-2017 12:40 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 701 of 734 (809024)
05-15-2017 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 698 by ringo
05-15-2017 12:40 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
Ok, that's a similar claim: So, where's the evidence?
What would constitute evidence of self-delusion?
You tell me - what are you basing your conclusion on?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 698 by ringo, posted 05-15-2017 12:40 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 702 by ringo, posted 05-16-2017 11:40 AM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 705 of 734 (809143)
05-16-2017 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 703 by Chiroptera
05-16-2017 11:57 AM


Re: Confederate Monuments Worth Puttin Up
I admit it's not so much for history as much as it's to see the good ol' boys scream.
Ah, so you don't know; you're just prejudiced

This message is a reply to:
 Message 703 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 11:57 AM Chiroptera has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 706 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 5:02 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 710 of 734 (809240)
05-17-2017 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Chiroptera
05-16-2017 5:02 PM


Re: Confederate Monuments Worth Puttin Up
I'm a bad bat.
Well, stop being bitter and start getting better.
Disregarding peoples' feelings on a matter and replacing it with an assumption that they are just masking their hate, is a sign of you improperly dealing with your own hate.
But it's all too easy: You don't have to actually think about and address their position if you can just brush them aside with "Nah man, they just hate black people."
That is prejudice and it doen't help.
Here, listen to some country music:
quote:
Brad Paisley Feat LL Cool J - Accidental Racist
To the man that waited on me at the Starbucks down on Main, I hope you understand
When I put on that t-shirt, the only thing I meant to say is I'm a Skynyrd fan
The red flag on my chest somehow is like the elephant in the corner of the south
And I just walked him right in the room
Just a proud rebel son with an ‘ol can of worms
Lookin' like I got a lot to learn but from my point of view
I'm just a white man comin' to you from the southland
Tryin' to understand what it's like not to be
I'm proud of where I'm from but not everything we've done
And it ain't like you and me can re-write history
Our generation didn't start this nation
We're still pickin' up the pieces, walkin' on eggshells, fightin' over yesterday
And caught between southern pride and southern blame
They called it Reconstruction, fixed the buildings, dried some tears
We're still siftin' through the rubble after a hundred-fifty years
I try to put myself in your shoes and that's a good place to begin
But it ain't like I can walk a mile in someone else's skin
‘Cause I'm a white man livin' in the southland
Just like you I'm more than what you see
I'm proud of where I'm from but not everything we've done
And it ain't like you and me can re-write history
Our generation didn't start this nation
And we're still paying for the mistakes
That a bunch of folks made long before we came
And caught between southern pride and southern blame
Dear Mr. White Man, I wish you understood
What the world is really like when you're livin' in the hood
Just because my pants are saggin' doesn't mean I'm up to no good
You should try to get to know me, I really wish you would
Now my chains are gold but I'm still misunderstood
I wasn't there when Sherman's March turned the south into firewood
I want you to get paid but be a slave I never could
Feel like a new fangled Django, dodgin' invisible white hoods
So when I see that white cowboy hat, I'm thinkin' it's not all good
I guess we're both guilty of judgin' the cover not the book
I'd love to buy you a beer, conversate and clear the air
But I see that red flag and I think you wish I wasn't here
I'm just a white man
(If you don't judge my do-rag)
Comin' to you from the southland
(I won't judge your red flag)
Tryin' to understand what it's like not to be
I'm proud of where I'm from
(If you don't judge my gold chains)
But not everything we've done
(I'll forget the iron chains)
It ain't like you and me can re-write history
(Can't re-write history baby)
Oh, Dixieland
(The relationship between the Mason-Dixon needs some fixin')
I hope you understand what this is all about
(Quite frankly I'm a black Yankee but I've been thinkin' about this lately)
I'm a son of the new south
(The past is the past, you feel me)
And I just want to make things right
(Let bygones be bygones)
Where all that's left is southern pride
(RIP Robert E. Lee but I've gotta thank Abraham Lincoln for freeing me, know what I mean)
It's real, it's real
It's truth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Chiroptera, posted 05-16-2017 5:02 PM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 713 of 734 (809387)
05-18-2017 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 708 by Percy
05-17-2017 9:27 AM


Re: et tu, Beauregard?
Now they're talking about removing the confederate monument in Forrest Park in St. Louis.
*sigh* I guess I gotta go buy a torch...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 708 by Percy, posted 05-17-2017 9:27 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 714 by NoNukes, posted 05-18-2017 3:54 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 719 of 734 (809823)
05-21-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 718 by Percy
05-21-2017 7:47 AM


Re: Robert E. Lee Statue Removed in New Orleans
Did you know that Seattle has a statue of Lenin?
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia
It's on private property, but still.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 718 by Percy, posted 05-21-2017 7:47 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 720 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2017 4:26 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 721 of 734 (809956)
05-22-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 720 by Chiroptera
05-21-2017 4:26 PM


Re: Robert E. Lee Statue Removed in New Orleans
It's on private property, but still.
I think that is an important distinction.
Meh, people are bitching about how offended they are by the sight of these statues, and the property they're on can't really affect that much if they're in sight.
It is certainly understandable that someone may protest against a statue of intolerant dictator who set up a horrible totalitarian regime.
That they're not is what is telling

This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by Chiroptera, posted 05-21-2017 4:26 PM Chiroptera has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 722 by NoNukes, posted 05-22-2017 2:46 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 724 of 734 (809985)
05-22-2017 3:57 PM


This was a good read:
Transcript of New Orleans Mayor Landrieu’s address on Confederate monuments | The Pulse
It's the mayor of New Orleans explaining why they took the monuments down.
I don't really care if a city want to remove monuments, but I did think it was a pretty dumb thing to do.
Reading the mayors explanation changed my mind some, and I don't think it's that dumb. It's not really something that I care about, but they can do what they want - and the reasoning wasn't bad and isn't really disagreeable.

Replies to this message:
 Message 725 by Taq, posted 05-24-2017 5:58 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
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