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Author | Topic: A Creationist Sues the Grand Canyon for Religious Discrimination | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Boof Member (Idle past 273 days) Posts: 99 From: Australia Joined: |
But yes they are being deposited over equally large areas, and to huge thicknesses, right now. That's the elephant in the room you are not seeing.
And please don't start using that 'geological column' terminology again - I've told you previously it's not a term used by geologists and you yourself cant even define what rocks are part of it. If I walk out the door tomorrow and pick up some quartzite or basalt or gneiss how do I know if it's part of your 'geological column' or not? Is the Vishnu Schist part of the column? And please, please, don't tell me to LOOK at the rocks. I can confidently predict have "REALLY LOOKED" at more rocks before breakfast this morning than you have in your entire lifetime. - you make the assumption that it all happened in a year when that assumption is not required.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
There would be no way to disprove the Biblical flood if the Bible is true. The flood has been disproved, so obviously the bible is not true in this regard.
There was one body of land at Genesis 1:10 as all the water was gathered to one place in Genesis 1:9. This body of land would have still been in existence at the time of the flood in Genes chapter 6, 7. The earth was then divided into what we see today during the days of Peleg. The last time all the land masses were together was about 175 million years ago.
All the mountains were formed during this division. Which would make it impossible for you to find a trace of a world wide flood. So, you have to also claim there were humans round 175 million years ago, and that the flood occurred that long ago. There is no evidence for either.
But there is no doubt that every inch of dry land we have today was covered with water in the past. Which agrees with Genesis 1:2. There is no evidence for a global flood during historic times.
Lets see now I have 3 scientific facts that support words that were written over 3400 years ago. One land mass.land mass covered with water divided land mass All of which never happened during human history. You're not doing very well, eh?Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Adminnemooseus Administrator Posts: 3976 Joined: |
Anyone care to take a look at message 1, and post something topic theme related?
Otherwise, going into summary mode soon. AdminnemooseusOr something like that. |
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Coyote Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: |
As I understand it I'm allowed to start from my biblical premises in this debate. Just because you believe something doesn't make it factual. Nor are we required to accept anything just because you happen to believe it.Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 311 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
The mere existence of such a depth of strata and such an abundance of dead things is what I'm talking about, that alone is the evidence for the Flood, there is no other explanation needed. But we have an explanation for that and for the things you can't explain. Also our explanation doesn't involve magic. So we win. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Tanypteryx Member Posts: 4443 From: Oregon, USA Joined: Member Rating: 5.0
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My own opinion on the lawsuit against Grand Canyon National Park is that it is purely a nuisance suit. The rock layers are accessible outside the park boundaries.
I was quite surprised that this topic got this much attention, although most was off topic.What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Cat
Cat writes: I uploaded that picture six years ago and this is not the first or second time I've linked to it. Are you saying science is wrong and Pangaea never existed? God Bless, Edited by ICANT, : No reason given."John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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ICANT Member Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined: Member Rating: 1.6 |
Hi Faith,
Faith writes: I know you have to believe it, but it's utterly absurd. Was there strata in the earth prior to the flood? What happened to it? God Bless,"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Cat writes: I uploaded that picture six years ago and this is not the first or second time I've linked to it. Are you saying science is wrong and Pangaea never existed? WTF? I'm saying that you are wrong to say that the water being in one place necessitates the land being in one place - which is refuted by seeing the water in one place but the land in two places. Cut the gish gallop and deal with the argument. Now, you've done this same thing in the past when we've discussed this. Here are the other images I uploaded years ago:
Notice how in those drawings of Pangea that the water is in multiple places - the water is not in one place. The water being in one place would require Pangea having no inland water and that is stupid. Edited by New Cat's Eye, : typo
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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ICANT writes: It is actually based on your assumption of what the Bible flood would have been. What the land mass was like, and the location of the land mass. Not at all. We can directly observe that floods deposit coarse grained sediments. They don't deposit hundreds of feet of microorganisms like those found in the massive chalk deposits in Europe. Floods don't produce alternating layers of finely grained clay and diatoms, in which leaf and insect debris is sorted in those layers by their 14C content. Floods don't produce massive thick layers of extremely small particle size, like those found in shales. Again, this is all based on observation, not assumption.
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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That's such nonsense. Sediments as we see them in the geological column, such as in the GC, covering such huge areas to such huge depths, are not being deposited around the world. About 70% of the Earth is currently experiencing that very type of deposition. Have you heard of the oceans?
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Faith writes: The explanation is that they aren't. Your denial carries no weight because you already stated that you have to believe that these strata are not separated by millions of years, and you have to believe this no matter what.
Obviously there is something wrong with your dating systems. I didn't say anything about dates. I said that they should all have the same 14C content. I am simply speaking about the ratio of 14C to 12C found in organic material in these sediments. Again, no dates. If you went around right now and measured the 14C/12C content of terrestrial organisms, be they trees or humans, you would find that they all have nearly the same 14C/12C content. That is because terrestrial organisms are in equilibrium with the 14C/12C ratio found in the atmosphere. Plants fix carbon dioxide from the atmosphere into their tissues, herbivores eat those plants and take on that carbon, and then carnivores eat those herbivores and take on their carbon. Therefore, if all this organic material was buried at the same time then it should all have the same 14C/12C content. It doesn't. Therefore, they could not have been buried at the same time.
Why? There are also sandstone layers that are hundreds of feet thick. All the layers were obviously deposited by the same means. Just look at them. Oh I know it's hopeless. Chalk layers are made up of tiny, tiny microorganisms called coccolithophores:
It takes long time periods for them to grow and settle to the bottom of the ocean. You also need calm water for long time periods for them to settle to the bottom. A flood can't produce hundreds of feet of microorganisms in a short time span. Of course, you will just ignore this evidence because you have to, and you have admitted as much.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Nobody ever shows the strata at the bottom of the oceans of course though it keeps being pushed as the ongoing site of the same kind of sedimentation as the geological column. Of course it's not and couldn't possibly be. Flat layers of sediments, extensive without encountering obstacles, no, not possible. Compare to walls of Grand Canyon. The geological column is over and done with, a product of the Flood.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1431 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Nobody ever shows the strata at the bottom of the oceans of course though it keeps being pushed as the ongoing site of the same kind of sedimentation as the geological column. Of course it's not and couldn't possibly be. Flat layers of sediments, extensive without encountering obstacles, no, not possible. Compare to walls of Grand Canyon. The geological column is over and done with, a product of the Flood. Sorry Faith, but wrong again. foraminifera, in layers, in the ocean, for over 540 million years.
quote: Pretty little things. Set in the spacial-temporal matrix in the seabed, they identify different ages for the sedimentary deposits they are found buried in.
quote: Speciation and transitions mapped against time for the layered deposits. Not the Grand Canyon, so not topical for further comment. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2
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Faith writes: Nobody ever shows the strata at the bottom of the oceans of course though it keeps being pushed as the ongoing site of the same kind of sedimentation as the geological column. Of course it's not and couldn't possibly be. Flat layers of sediments, extensive without encountering obstacles, no, not possible. Compare to walls of Grand Canyon. The geological column is over and done with, a product of the Flood. I see a lot of claims, but zero evidence to back them up.
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