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Author Topic:   Evolution is a racist doctrine
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9926
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 331 of 391 (809500)
05-18-2017 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 324 by Davidjay
05-17-2017 7:03 PM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
First they say primates came from bats, then tree shrews

Based on your message regarding trees and branching, you clearly know that folks are not saying that primates came from tree shrews, and you also understand why they would not say that.

You've also been warned about that your continued deliberate falsehoods are to be punished with suspensions. So at this point, everyone knows that your goal is to get kicked out of here permanently. I suspect you will get your wish, so I am saying goodbye now.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 324 by Davidjay, posted 05-17-2017 7:03 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18970
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 332 of 391 (809503)
05-18-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Davidjay
05-17-2017 7:40 PM


changing the topic, moving the goalposts, dodging questions
Where did humans come from Raz ?

Curiously I note that this has nothing to do with YOUR topic "Evolution is a racist doctrine" and that you failed utterly to answer my questions on Message 288:

quote:
... so how can evolution be racist when "being better" depends of which ecological conditions is involved?

  • black mice "better adapted" than tan mice on lava beds
    -- vs --
  • tan mice "better adapted" than black mice on sandy soil
    -- vs --
  • black mice equally adapted as tan mice on green moss covered ground?

Is one race/variety superior to the other?


Is evolution 'racist' because black mice are 'superior' to tan mice on lava beds?

Or is evolution 'racist' because tan mice are 'superior' to black mice on tan soil?

Which is it oh great purveyor of misinformation?

(correct answer: neither, because evolution is not racist)

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Davidjay, posted 05-17-2017 7:40 PM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 333 of 391 (809505)
05-18-2017 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by RAZD
05-17-2017 8:06 PM


Re: "First they say primates came from bats, then tree shrews"
The tentative connections between species or time of extinction, indicated by a "?", are open to clarification as new DNA and fossil evidence is reviewed in the scientific literature; see comments below the chart.

The first interesting thing on this thread! Do you have any more context for our graphic? I found the website, but there is little explanation for how they present it, and I am very curious which Ethiopian fossils they are classifying as H. antecessor. I've only ever seen this applied to Spanish fossils.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by RAZD, posted 05-17-2017 8:06 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by RAZD, posted 05-18-2017 6:13 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18970
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 334 of 391 (809526)
05-18-2017 6:13 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by caffeine
05-18-2017 4:30 PM


Re: "First they say primates came from bats, then tree shrews"
The first interesting thing on this thread! Do you have any more context for our graphic? I found the website, but there is little explanation for how they present it, and I am very curious which Ethiopian fossils they are classifying as H. antecessor. I've only ever seen this applied to Spanish fossils.

This is one of my go-to sites, as they keep updating with new information. There's an "email me" link, so I would do that.

Enjoy

ps thanks for the wrist link


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by caffeine, posted 05-18-2017 4:30 PM caffeine has acknowledged this reply

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12528
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 335 of 391 (809581)
05-19-2017 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Diomedes
05-18-2017 11:25 AM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
In case it helps make sense of some of what Davidjay says, he doesn't understand the difference between a tree showing descent, like the one you just showed:

And a tree showing classification relationships, like this one that caused him to conclude that primates are descended from bats:


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Diomedes, posted 05-18-2017 11:25 AM Diomedes has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 336 by caffeine, posted 05-19-2017 1:28 PM Admin has responded

    
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 336 of 391 (809611)
05-19-2017 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Admin
05-19-2017 10:01 AM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
In case it helps make sense of some of what Davidjay says, he doesn't understand the difference between a tree showing descent, like the one you just showed:

And a tree showing classification relationships, like this one that caused him to conclude that primates are descended from bats:

I do not understand the distinction you're making - those trees are both showing descent. And the one which you claim led to DavidJay's confusion about bats doesn't include any bats. His confusion about bats had nothing to do with that graphic. It was spurred by Chiroptera's mentioned of the (outdated) theory that bats are closely related to primates:

quote:
However, Archonta is a clade that includes bats (ahem!) assuming that bats are that closely related to primates.

My reading is that he sees the evolutionary model as proposing some sort of Grand Chain of Being. The branching he bangs on about seems to involve some kind of superior organism sprouting out of the inferior organisms below. The inferior organisms remain, but now there are superior branches of organims above them. From these, in turn, bud off new, superior branches, until we have a hierarchy of organisms with (presumably) humans at the top.

Hence the continual demand to know what animals we branched off from. He's looking for the living species from which the superior human branch budded off.

That's the most sense I can make of it, anyway.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Admin, posted 05-19-2017 10:01 AM Admin has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 337 by Diomedes, posted 05-19-2017 1:56 PM caffeine has responded
 Message 339 by Admin, posted 05-19-2017 5:34 PM caffeine has responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 662
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.7


(6)
Message 337 of 391 (809614)
05-19-2017 1:56 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by caffeine
05-19-2017 1:28 PM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
My reading is that he sees the evolutionary model as proposing some sort of Grand Chain of Being. The branching he bangs on about seems to involve some kind of superior organism sprouting out of the inferior organisms below. The inferior organisms remain, but now there are superior branches of organims above them. From these, in turn, bud off new, superior branches, until we have a hierarchy of organisms with (presumably) humans at the top.

Honestly, I think he understands the concepts just fine. He is just playing stupid to get a rise out of everyone. His posts don't read like he is engaged in dialog. They are just troll babble. Nothing more.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by caffeine, posted 05-19-2017 1:28 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 338 by caffeine, posted 05-19-2017 4:43 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 338 of 391 (809622)
05-19-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 337 by Diomedes
05-19-2017 1:56 PM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
Honestly, I think he understands the concepts just fine. He is just playing stupid to get a rise out of everyone. His posts don't read like he is engaged in dialog. They are just troll babble. Nothing more.

I guess I have more faith in people's honesty, but less in their reading comprehension skills.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 337 by Diomedes, posted 05-19-2017 1:56 PM Diomedes has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12528
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 339 of 391 (809627)
05-19-2017 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by caffeine
05-19-2017 1:28 PM


Re: Creationism wins, racism loses
caffeine writes:

And the one which you claim led to DavidJay's confusion about bats doesn't include any bats.

Sorry, I meant tree shrews.

I do not understand the distinction you're making - those trees are both showing descent.

Here's the diagram again:

Here's the paragraph from the Scientific American article (Introducing the Treeshrews: They Don't All Live in Trees and They Aren't Close to Shrews) that appears beneath the diagram:

quote:
Treeshrews might not be part of Primates, but they do share anatomical characters (in the skeleton and in numerous organ systems) with primates as well as with the so-called flying lemurs (Dermoptera). The idea that they’re part of the placental group Euarchonta is therefore universally accepted… more or less (read on). Some molecular studies suggest an especially close relationship between treeshrews and flying lemurs (Murphy et al. 2001, Olson et al. 2005, Springer et al. 2007, Prasad et al. 2008, Asher et al. 2009). This hypothesis has become quite popular and the clade that contains the two has been termed Sundatheria (Olson et al. 2005) or Paraprimates (Springer et al. 2007). ‘Sundatheria’ refers to the idea that these mammals are strongly associated with Sundaland, the biogeographical region that incorporates Borneo, Sumatra, peninsula Malaysia and the adjacent continental shelf region that would have been exposed during times of low sea level.

To my reading it is representing it as a diagram of classification. Davidjay noted that this paragraph says that tree shrews are part of Euarchonta, then saw in the diagram (he thought) that primates are descended from Euarchonta, and so concluded that primates are descended from tree shrews. I don't claim to have it right, deciphering Davidjay is challenging, but that's how I was looking at it.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by caffeine, posted 05-19-2017 1:28 PM caffeine has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by caffeine, posted 05-23-2017 4:27 PM Admin has responded

    
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 340 of 391 (809667)
05-20-2017 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Diomedes
05-18-2017 11:25 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
No offense evolutionists your grapgh isa total joke and should be a total embarassment for you.

It is not a flow chart, it doesn;t show human ancestry according to evolutionists...... as even apes and humans are not connected.... but side by side...according to your silly cousins or brothers dementyia branching.

Evolution is suppose to show ancestry and where we came from, and you evolutionists DONT KNOW.... and just excuse your ignorance with artists sketches and classifications of supposed ancestors who are extinct, as no transition species have ever been found.

Evolution is a con and a lie.... only for the gullible and those that are intimidated into their belief system

Please reLOOK at that insane grapgh or branching


Being told to "Fuck you I can fucking write whatever I want" by CatsEye to me is against the rules of civil debate, ) at http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=17167&mpp=1... ...message 145 )but this board says its acceptable language if done by an evolutionist.... and then suspend me rather than him.
.

CatsEye responds after being prtotected by Percy, by saying... Author: New Cat's Eye
Message: 601
Forum: Suggestions and Questions
Topic: Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0

ABE: Whoops, not a discussion thread. Content hidden, peak to read.

Kiss My Ass, and Fuck you, I can write whatever I fucking want
to their opposition, just because they are frustrated and losing a debate.

Ha! That's a lie.

When Cats Eye states.
Fuck you, kiss my Ass
to me, it is not civil nor respectful...

You don't deserve respect.

And are you gonna cry all day, crybaby?

Evolutionists are used to forcing their theory on students and scientists. They are not used to answering any questions on this theory, because it is their religion. And as a religion it must be accepted by faith.... It is not science and it is not logical or rational and has no facts behind it. Evolution is a con and a LIE. A big one, but because it is forced on the gullible and on students, they must accept it. This their modus operandi...and so when faced with sane biological opposition, they can only be subjective rather than objective.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Diomedes, posted 05-18-2017 11:25 AM Diomedes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2017 9:44 AM Davidjay has responded
 Message 345 by Diomedes, posted 05-20-2017 10:54 AM Davidjay has responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 341 of 391 (809671)
05-20-2017 9:44 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by Davidjay
05-20-2017 9:19 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
If you don't have the scientific background to read and understand that chart, its not the fault of science...

You seem to have "weaponized" ignorance, and that's not a very useful weapon.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Davidjay, posted 05-20-2017 9:19 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 342 by Davidjay, posted 05-20-2017 10:30 AM Coyote has responded

  
Davidjay 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1026
From: B.C Canada
Joined: 11-05-2004


Message 342 of 391 (809682)
05-20-2017 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 341 by Coyote
05-20-2017 9:44 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
No one with intelligence can deny the absolute worthliness of that graph.

Trying to support its ignorance is truly pathetic.

Evolutionists have classification charts, or groupings of so called classed or nomenclature to describe a certain type of KINDS or SPECIES..these do exist which is why the **** and *********** ridicuolousness enters in.... as artists conceptions are not proof of evolution.

An ancestry chart, as with humans connects up parents with kids... Children have ancestors.

Evolutionists CAN NOT answer who their ancestors were and get very very very upset when you mention that a *** or a ********** is not our ancestor.

They try tosay chimps and apes were not ancestors..... but when faced with who were the ancestors of apes and chimps, they grind to a STOP.

They have no idea, no answer... they are SPEECHLESSS and VOID and IGNORANT and afraid to mention ofr theorise any kind that mutated into us or into primates.

And it makes them truly angry, even though they are not mad at themselves and their ignorance and inability to pin point our ancestor and so turn on the questioner as the problem.

As befoe, so again.

The chart is bogus as hell.

Learn what a ancestrial flow chart is.....

Grand Parent-Parents-Children

Who was our ancestor, who was the ancestor of the primates ?

If you dont answer I shall report you for not carrying on this discussion.


Being told to "Fuck you I can fucking write whatever I want" by CatsEye to me I thought would be against the rules Here( at http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=17167&mpp=1... ...message 145 ) but this board says there are no rules concerning languageHERE, so allow me to repost Cats eyes comments as logically therefore his words can not offend anyone....and can be part of my signature..... because it is not against the rules

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2017 9:44 AM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 343 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-20-2017 10:33 AM Davidjay has not yet responded
 Message 344 by Coyote, posted 05-20-2017 10:45 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 343 of 391 (809683)
05-20-2017 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Davidjay
05-20-2017 10:30 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
David, you are telling stupid lies again.

Whom do you hope to deceive?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Davidjay, posted 05-20-2017 10:30 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5989
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 344 of 391 (809686)
05-20-2017 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Davidjay
05-20-2017 10:30 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
If you dont answer I shall report you for not carrying on this discussion.

Report away.

And don't forget to mention that you've been avoiding responding to my archaeological evidence disproving the flood for over a month in spite of repeated prodding.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Davidjay, posted 05-20-2017 10:30 AM Davidjay has not yet responded

  
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 662
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 345 of 391 (809691)
05-20-2017 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 340 by Davidjay
05-20-2017 9:19 AM


Re: Evolution Graph is a joke
No offense evolutionists your grapgh isa total joke and should be a total embarassment for you.

And your spelling and grammar skills are an embarrassment to everyone.

It is not a flow chart, it doesn;t show human ancestry according to evolutionists...... as even apes and humans are not connected.... but side by side...according to your silly cousins or brothers dementyia branching.

RAZD already provided a more comprehensive graph showing human ancestry. My guess is that was a little too complicated for you. So I attempted to provide a more simplified version in the hopes you could comprehend it more easily. Guess I was wrong.

Evolution is suppose to show ancestry and where we came from, and you evolutionists DONT KNOW

Actually, we do. See all previous posts on the topic.

Evolution is a con and a lie.... only for the gullible and those that are intimidated into their belief system

Actually, evolution is a fact. Only the profanely stupid can't seem to comprehend the concepts. As evidenced by your babble.

Please reLOOK at that insane grapgh or branching

Just re-looked. Makes sense to me.

Oh, and learn to spell 'graph'.

This calls for another facepalm:

P.S. Yes everyone, I know I am just feeding Christian Troll-boy. But I was bored this morning.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by Davidjay, posted 05-20-2017 9:19 AM Davidjay has responded

Replies to this message:
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