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Author | Topic: PC Gone Too Far | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Chiroptera Inactive Member |
I'm a bad bat.
Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2587 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 6.5 |
Chiroptera rues himself:
I'm a bad bat. ...maybe not. you could just have channeled a bad treeshrew here. - xongsmith, 5.7d
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
In today's New York Times, New Orleans Removes Beauregard Statue, and Subdued Crowds Look On:
quote: A warehouse. This is a lost opportunity to put context around the statue. Now the statue will be forgotten. Or perhaps it will be purchased by white supremacists to use in promoting their agenda. The remaining monument is that of Robert E. Lee. --Percy
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Taq Member Posts: 10045 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Percy writes: A warehouse. This is a lost opportunity to put context around the statue. Now the statue will be forgotten. Or perhaps it will be purchased by white supremacists to use in promoting their agenda. It could also be donated to a Civil War museum that can put all of these statues and relics in their proper cultural and historical context.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I'm a bad bat. Well, stop being bitter and start getting better. Disregarding peoples' feelings on a matter and replacing it with an assumption that they are just masking their hate, is a sign of you improperly dealing with your own hate. But it's all too easy: You don't have to actually think about and address their position if you can just brush them aside with "Nah man, they just hate black people." That is prejudice and it doen't help. Here, listen to some country music:
quote:
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Or perhaps it will be purchased by white supremacists to use in promoting their agenda. Weren't most of these monuments originally erected by white supremacists to promote their agenda? If so, how do you "contextualize" that? Put up a big sign in front of it - big enough and positioned so you can't get a good picture of the monument without the sign - that says, "This monument was erected during a time when the unjustified oppression of black citizens was intensifying, to commemorate a society that thought owning other human beings as if they were property was part of an advanced civilization"?Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
to commemorate a society that thought owning other human beings as if they were property was part of an advanced civilization Chiroptera!! That would be so unfair. White supremacists of every era have a right to their heroes and they deserve to celebrate whoever they wish, right in the middle of town. How dare you suggest hang a sign condemning the ancestors of the Daughters of the Confederacy? [sarcasm off] The current intent is not to put keep these statues in a warehouse. New Orleans has already received a number of requests for the statues. A couple of weeks in a warehouse is no big deal. These things have been eyesores for decades.
Percy writes: Or perhaps it will be purchased by white supremacists to use in promoting their agenda. Haters are going to hate. But maybe they won't get to promote their agenda in the middle of the town square. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Now they're talking about removing the confederate monument in Forrest Park in St. Louis.
*sigh* I guess I gotta go buy a torch...
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
Now they're talking about removing the confederate monument in Forrest Park in St. Louis. In my opinion, this statute presents the least controversy and offense of the ones we've looked at. It's also enormous and places to put the statue after moving it may be difficult to find. The article indicates that there is an offer from a museum to take it, but that offer has some issues. What's the torch for? Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Another piece of our history lost:
This article (New Orleans removes monument to Confederate Gen. Robert E. Lee) mentions what will replace the statue and where the collection of removed statues will go:
quote: --Percy
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
Here's a little bit more detail about the fate of the statues from the New York Times editorial From Lofty Perch, New Orleans Monument to Confederacy Comes Down:
quote: --Percy
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
As for the statues themselves, the city is taking proposals from nonprofits and governmental entities, with the aim that they be put in their proper historical context from a dark period of American history. So not lost.. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000
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Percy Member Posts: 22480 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 4.8 |
NoNukes writes: As for the statues themselves, the city is taking proposals from nonprofits and governmental entities, with the aim that they be put in their proper historical context from a dark period of American history.
So not lost.. It's a good story, obviously I don't believe there will be follow through. No matter what happens to the original statues, for the sake of historical preservation I think there should be plaques at the original locations explaining that there used to be a statues there and how and in what way they became controversial. Their erection deserved preservation as a record of history, and so does their removal. --Percy
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Did you know that Seattle has a statue of Lenin?
Statue of Lenin (Seattle) - Wikipedia It's on private property, but still.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member |
It's on private property, but still. I think that is an important distinction. Namely, instead of an indictment of the sentiments of an entire community, it becomes more of a question about the motives of the owner of the property. Speaking of which, according to Wikipedia, it wasn't erected in Seattle as a monument to Lenin's greatness or anything, and the residents of the neighborhood seem to think of it more ironically than as a monument extolling the virtues of totalitarian, single-party rule. I think that's another important difference. Ss far as I know, there hasn't been any wide spread protests against it standing where it is; that is yet, in my opinion, another important difference. Still, I can see how immigrants from eastern Europe, especially older ones, would be taken back by seeing it. It is certainly understandable that someone may protest against a statue of intolerant dictator who set up a horrible totalitarian regime.Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg
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