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Author Topic:   Trump's order on immigration and the wacko liberal response
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 242 of 993 (798453)
02-02-2017 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Faith
01-30-2017 9:32 AM


Faith writes:
THEY ARE ALREADY ENEMIES by their ideology.
Millions of muslims live peacefully and thankfully in the US. Islam is not our enemy. When we start discriminating against muslims based on their religious beliefs, then we are showing ourselves to be an enemy of Islam. It is really that simple.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Faith, posted 01-30-2017 9:32 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 4:50 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(5)
Message 244 of 993 (798458)
02-02-2017 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 243 by Faith
02-02-2017 4:50 PM


Faith writes:
I could have been clearer because I always mean to say it's the IDEOLOGY THAT IS OUR ENEMY.
Millions of muslims living peacefully in the US, contributing at every level in our economy, disproves your claim.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 243 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 4:50 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 246 by Faith, posted 02-02-2017 6:48 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 322 of 993 (798910)
02-06-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by Faith
02-06-2017 8:23 AM


Faith writes:
There is no doubt whatever that Trump's ban is constitutional.
The actual experts with years of experience and education who have been hired to determine those very things may very well disagree with you. As much as conservatives like to talk about adhering to the US Constitution, they sure seem to forget that it has a 3rd Article.
As with many of these types of decisions, the EO has been suspended until its constitutionality can be determined, which is the right decision.
it is very clear that the President has the right to keep aliens temporarily out of the country if he considers them to be a potential danger to the security of the nation.
It becomes unconstitutional when people's visas are not honored because of their religious affiliation. Trump et al. have openly stated that this is a Muslim ban, and that is going to come back to haunt them in court.
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by Faith, posted 02-06-2017 8:23 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 2:42 PM Taq has replied
 Message 353 by JonF, posted 02-06-2017 5:54 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 327 of 993 (798931)
02-06-2017 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 323 by bluegenes
02-06-2017 2:42 PM


bluegenes writes:
But you don't have freedom of religion. Secular laws have always trumped religion when there is conflict.
Freedom of religion is a secular law. The courts have been quite clear that you can't discriminate against people based solely on their religious beliefs. Trump et al. have been quite clear from the beginning that this is a ban based on religious beliefs and not on a secular law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 2:42 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 4:43 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 351 of 993 (798961)
02-06-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 330 by bluegenes
02-06-2017 4:43 PM


bluegenes writes:
The U.S. will have been discriminating against believers in certain sub-sects of Islam for some time in its immigration policy. Where were the courts?
How so?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 4:43 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 359 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 6:09 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 355 of 993 (798966)
02-06-2017 6:01 PM
Reply to: Message 331 by Faith
02-06-2017 4:57 PM


Faith writes:
The Constitution does not apply to noncitizens.
It does apply to government agents issuing and honoring visas.
The US can "discriminate" against any noncitizens it wants for whatever reason, including religions.
Since when?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 331 by Faith, posted 02-06-2017 4:57 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 358 of 993 (798969)
02-06-2017 6:06 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by bluegenes
02-06-2017 5:53 PM


bluegenes writes:
An individual has this religious belief that you'll happily defend, but if you were a U.S. immigration official and you knew of this religious belief and refused him entry due to that religious belief, are you being unconstitutional?
The only thing many of these people are "guilty" of is believing that Muhammad was a prophet of God.
These people have already gone through an extensive vetting procedure that lasts 1 to 2 years. They have had background checks, had interviews, and so on.
Trump wants to claim that he wants time to install "extreme vetting", but everyone has already seen what that means with respect to his own cabinet. He didn't even vet the people working with him in the White House. We all know what this is. It is a Muslim ban where the sole basis for denying entry is for believing that Muhammad is a prophet of God.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 5:53 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 6:17 PM Taq has replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 360 of 993 (798971)
02-06-2017 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 333 by Faith
02-06-2017 5:05 PM


Faith writes:
Freedom of religion was always understood not to include a religion that endorsed any kind of criminal behavior according to the laws on criminality. Religions that practice human sacrifice are therefore excluded, as is a religion that practices violent jihad against "infidels". Unfortunately such a commonsense rule is rejected by the prevailing craziness these days.
You are painting an entire religion using the actions of a minority. There are millions of muslims that live peacefully in the US, love the US, and are not involved in any criminal behavior. They have more compassion for the fellow Americans in their little finger than you do in your whole body.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 333 by Faith, posted 02-06-2017 5:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 361 of 993 (798972)
02-06-2017 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by bluegenes
02-06-2017 6:09 PM


bluegenes writes:
Groups like the Taliban, Al Qaeda, ISIS etc. aren't just political organisations. They are theological sub sects, and their theologies are very important to them.
Just like the Aryan Nation church and other Christian based white supremacist groups are a sub-sect of Christianity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 6:09 PM bluegenes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 6:25 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 451 of 993 (799087)
02-07-2017 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by bluegenes
02-06-2017 6:17 PM


bluegenes writes:
In the bit you quoted, the "religious belief" is the specific one that the individual's god would want him to fly aeroplanes into skyscrapers, not just any Muslim.
The ban includes Muslims who don't believe they should fly airplanes into buildings.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by bluegenes, posted 02-06-2017 6:17 PM bluegenes has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 886 of 993 (810112)
05-23-2017 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 885 by marc9000
05-23-2017 2:57 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
marc9000 writes:
That amendment was written about the end of slavery. There was no intent involved to include illegal aliens.
If it was limited to slavery then it would have said that it was limited to slavery. No such text exists in the amendment, so it covers more than slavery.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 885 by marc9000, posted 05-23-2017 2:57 PM marc9000 has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 893 of 993 (810162)
05-24-2017 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 889 by marc9000
05-23-2017 9:30 PM


Re: Sessions' DoJ vs Immigration Lawyers
marc9000 writes:
The Constitution isn't amended to express sentiments, it's amended to make changes.
You contradict yourself just a paragraph later:
"The 1866 Congress was not thinking about illegal immigrants AT ALL when that amendment was written."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 889 by marc9000, posted 05-23-2017 9:30 PM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 895 by marc9000, posted 05-24-2017 8:18 PM Taq has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10045
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 981 of 993 (812860)
06-20-2017 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 975 by Faith
06-20-2017 8:34 AM


Re: This is the response I wanted to give
Faith writes:
Then shoot me because I don't want to live in a Leftist-defined America.
Which parts bother you the most?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 975 by Faith, posted 06-20-2017 8:34 AM Faith has not replied

  
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