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Author | Topic: What happened at Fatima, Portugal between May & October 1917? Six Mary appearances? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||
LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
I have seen descriptions of the Fatima appearances while reading about unidentified flying objects.
During one of the sightings, a super wet crowd of thousands were miraculously dried after a UFO broke through the thick rain clowds. The ground went from being very muddy and in like a minute became crusty dry. Why was a crowd there? Because previously private appearances of "Mary" to Lucia Dos Santos, Francisco Marto, and Jacinta Marto involved specific details describing future time and place visitations - yes, they were spoken words from the supernatural entity . So it resulted in the 3 kids talking about the future visit, and the results included crowds forming for the hopes of being witness to the vision that might happen. It wound up being a mass vision. The kids were threatened by local authorities with death by boiling oil if they didn't recant their story. But they held fast. Lucia Dos Santos live till 2005 when the 97 year old died. (Though there is a conspiracy theory around that describes the 97 year old as an imposter and not the "real Sister Lucia" ) I wonder if this evidence counts as something abnormal or just a mass hallucination. Or outright fraud. The first thing we can do is be grateful for so many witnesses and the other thing should be gratitude for some witnesses being around for so long. The Catholic Church accepted the appearances as real back in 1930 fwiw. Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed dates
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AdminPhat Inactive Member |
Thread copied here from the What happened at Fatima, Portugal between May & October 2017? Six Mary appearances? thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.
This topic is better than your other PNT because it is more specific as to a definite topic. Edited by AdminPhat, : added
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
I don't know what happened, but that is past tense and Oct 2017 is in the future
Typo?
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jar Member (Idle past 414 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
LNA writes: During one of the sightings, a super wet crowd of thousands were miraculously dried after a UFO broke through the thick rain clowds. The ground went from being very muddy and in like a minute became crusty dry. I'm sorry but once something that silly gets introduced into a discussion all that's left to do is laugh.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
I put Fatima 1917 into google, and every hit was right on topic.
Google I found this hit The Lady of Fátima & the Miracle of the Sun | Live Science
quote: Here is the wikipedia article Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia I haven't found much discussion of the dry clothes & mud issue. But most of the criticism centers around the idea that , "It surely couldn't have been anything real since we all have the same Sun, and nobody anywhere else (outside Fatima) saw the sun move around and shine all silvery". The weight of criticism of a abnormal event seems to be that "the sun just doesn't do that". I think it is much better to see this as a UFO type of event, and a darn credible one at that. I say credible because the UFO issues back in this time involved cigar shaped zeppelin type of craft, and not silvery, shining discs. Here was my description of descriptions I heard:
quote: Jar said this:
quote: Nice to see that the spirit of free and open inquiry is alive and well here at EvC. Here are some pastes from the Wikipedia link.
quote: Then
quote: That was Oxford, but there is a lot of Wikipedia text on critical views of the event. I feel that it is foolish to laugh at an event that had so many witnesses, and also keeping in mind that it was really a modern era documented phenomenon. Full of interviews of witnesses, media reports, university attention, skeptical investigations and the like. There is an investigation. All agree that the children told people that October 13 would be a special date, and long before the actual day. There is an ongoing investigation. And the issue hasn't been settled. Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
You are starting to overuse google again to generate responses to your topic.
What do YOU think? (Not what have others said) Is Mary any more blessed or powerful than any other human? Personally, I limit power to Jesus alone. Others, such as jar, even go so far as to say Jesus was simply human while on earth. Any supernatural (or UFO) experiences are limited to speculation. I will admit, however, that this was one of the ones that had a larger crowd...seemingly lending weight to any future speculation.Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
LamarkNewAge writes:
What distinguishes that event from people seeing the image of Jesus in an oil stain in a parking lot?
I feel that it is foolish to laugh at an event that had so many witnesses....
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Phat Member Posts: 18298 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
If you stare at reality long enough you will see what you WANT to see.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith "as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
Then Phat said that "supernatural (or UFO) experiences are limited to speculation "
The child later known as "Sister Lucia " lived till 2005 . (If you accept the imposter theory, then she still lived at least 40 years after 1917 I think ) She was the devout Christian medium that heard and saw the "Mary" entity. She alone talked to "Mary " We have the witness of one. The Mary entity told her that October 13,1917 would be a date that she would appear again to Lucia and it would be accompanied with a miracle that all would witness. 70,000 people showed up. Little Lucia couldn't have planned on some optical trick brought about by eyes staring too long at the sun, could she? The spontaneous nature of the events of that day are very hard to deny. Agreed? Do we all agree? People might think that humans can see what they want to see, but there is a difference between suddenly and temporarily seeing something unexpected verses long held artifacts being studied for long periods of time by staring eyes. Little Lucia was talking to Mary for hours, then on her own (without Mary mentioning the sun ) said, "the sun", in a moment of noticing a shinning disc move around below the sun. Witnesses said it moved all around for about a minute or so. Then it stopped. The brief fleeting moment became known as "The Miracle of the Sun ". Lucia planned that? Really?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1464 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I did some reading about both UFOs and apparitions of Mary some years ago, read a book about the apparition at Medjugorje, only know a little about Fatima.
Ufologist Jacques Vallee wrote a book about UFOs that argues against the ET idea and describes them as "spiritual phenomena" intended to deceive. He compares them to fairies and leprechauns and other such figures down through history, saying their behavior is much more like those phenomena, appearing and disappearing and that sort of thing, than like anything from another planet, or the physical universe. I was a fairly new Christian at the time and thought his analysis fascinating. He's not a believer, just made comparisons with those folklore tales and found them similar. So I think the comparison between UFOs and Marian apparitions is right on. I think they are the same phenomena, something conjured up by the demons or fallen angels to deceive the human race. I don't know about the "miracles" but demons can do some illusions and even "manifest" some objects, so I've heard. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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LamarkNewAge Member Posts: 2312 Joined: |
Faith.
So you don't question that something abnormal happened on October 13 in Fatima? I feel like I have to clarify the UFO miracle from the solar miracle theory. I feel that the UFO was misidentified as the sun. This might not be the best illustration, but I will use this unrelated May 4 2017 New York Post article to try to make my point. It is about the Battle of Coral Sea in World War II, and the journalist is Ruth Brown.
quote: Now, the optical perspective among the folks at Fatima seems to indicate that a very bright circular object took a overwhelmingly dominate position in the respective witnesses field of vision. The object appears to have started (intentionally?) its attention-getting phase by superimposing itself over the (much dimmer ) sun, which itself was only previously seen behind cloud cover. The UFO was so bright that the sun couldn't be seen at all, and that was apparently still true even after the misidentified "solar" object started to move around away from the superimposed eclipse position of the actual sun. The big, bright UFO was simply all that the witnesses could see, and they thought that it was indeed the sun. The fact that little Lucia called attention to "The Sun " just as the object started its decent - as it revealed itself - only guaranteed the confusion of the UFO with the sun would be made right from the start, when it might have been possible to distinguish the two totally separate objects before the optics would have totally prevented such a distinction. Hence the name of the October 13 ,1917 event was described as The Miracle of The Sun, and the idea is that the Sun actually did all the moving around that day. My hypothesis (admittedly not original, but still a little heard minority view among those who feel the event was truly abnormal and not some imagined and confused non-event ) assumes that UFOs have genuine manifestations ( surely a strike against the theory ),but it has the advantage of taking the witnesses' statements as far as their testimony truly deserves. It also includes the advantage of taking the three little kids as honest as well. I figured out that I might as well just let the best possible hypothesis be the best (for now ) conclusion that we should cautiously take.
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Dredge Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
LamarkNewAge writes:
This is a lie - for starters, no one had even heard of UFOs in 1917! The true Fatima account has nothing whatsoever to do with Little Green Men flying around in UFOs.
a UFO broke through the thick rain cloudsthe kids were threatened ... with death by boiling oil if they didn't recant their story
More nonsense.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
False. ... for starters, no one had even heard of UFOs in 1917! See Wikipedia:
quote:
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Dredge Member (Idle past 93 days) Posts: 2850 From: Australia Joined: |
Nevertheless, none of the appartitions accepted by the Catholic Church contain UFOlogy in any way, shape or form.
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ringo Member (Idle past 432 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Dredge writes:
As far as I know, you're right. Any talk about UFOs is just adding another layer of silliness.
Nevertheless, none of the appartitions accepted by the Catholic Church contain UFOlogy in any way, shape or form.
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