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Author Topic:   The Giant Pool Of Money. Implications
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1812
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 256 of 391 (803715)
04-03-2017 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by crashfrog
04-03-2017 10:04 PM


Crashfrog!
Welcome back!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2017 10:04 PM crashfrog has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2017 10:19 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

    
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 391 (803716)
04-03-2017 10:19 PM
Reply to: Message 256 by xongsmith
04-03-2017 10:13 PM


Re: Crashfrog!
I'm not here to stay, just thought I'd check in, maybe hang for a day or two. I'm active on Twitter and Reddit, though.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 256 by xongsmith, posted 04-03-2017 10:13 PM xongsmith has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 258 of 391 (803756)
04-04-2017 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by crashfrog
04-03-2017 10:04 PM


Re: Aberration Period
I used to believe the gold bugs and the predictions that they had for the economy. Now, I'll honestly admit I have no clue what will happen except that I now know (or at least believe) that debt is part of the whole game. The Fed seems to think they can control things, but I'm not convinced that inflation may not yet make a return.

How have you been, crashfrog? I'm glad you stopped by! Yes, you told me so....and maybe you have a prediction for the next five years.....

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by crashfrog, posted 04-03-2017 10:04 PM crashfrog has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 259 of 391 (804420)
04-09-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 14 by Phat
10-07-2010 8:02 AM


Re: The American Mindset

Does anyone have an opinion on the probability that this debt will
1) Ever be repaid?
2) Need to be repaid or refinanced?
3)Is harmful for future growth?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Phat, posted 10-07-2010 8:02 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 260 by 14174dm, posted 04-09-2017 2:12 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 2:19 PM Phat has responded

  
14174dm
Member
Posts: 128
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 260 of 391 (804431)
04-09-2017 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
04-09-2017 11:56 AM


Re: The American Mindset
My opinion:
1. Yes it will be repaid as so much is held by pension plans, 401k, and other wide spread funds that most Americans hold some of the debt whether they know it or not.
2. Repaid - yes. If the federal government defaults once, future borrowing will cost more as part of the risk/reward balance in determining rates. Refinanced - no most of the recent debt was at historically low rates that I doubt will get better.
3. Yes the growing debt is definitely harmful. The current debt consumes something like 14% (from memory) of all federal spending (incl Social Security & Medicare) and something like 25% of the federal budget outside the self funding Social Security & Medicare. Unless the federal budget is balanced (cut spending and/or raise taxes), that percentage will continue to grow until essentially all that is left is tax collection & debt repayment as a federal budget. Meanwhile the higher tax rates will stifle the economy and needed services (law enforcement, courts, infrastructure, education, etc.) will be abandoned.

But that's the future and the voters believe the political promises so nothing changes.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 11:56 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13723
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 261 of 391 (804434)
04-09-2017 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Phat
04-09-2017 11:56 AM


Re: The American Mindset
Generally speaking, lenders are more interested in having a constant income stream from the vigorish interest than in having the principal repaid.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 11:56 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 3:01 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 262 of 391 (804442)
04-09-2017 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by ringo
04-09-2017 2:19 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Don't we the people have a say in all this? Is there a difference ideologically between how conservatives in general view the debt vs moderate/liberals in general?

Does one group profit more from the debt itself while the other group needs the government services more?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 2:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 3:17 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13723
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(4)
Message 263 of 391 (804444)
04-09-2017 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 262 by Phat
04-09-2017 3:01 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Phat writes:

Is there a difference ideologically between how conservatives in general view the debt vs moderate/liberals in general?


This is an over-simplification but: Right-wingers tend to see government like a business whereas left-wingers see it more like a family.

In a business you're only concerned about the bottom line. If you're not making (enough) money, you can just shut the business down and go elsewhere.

In a family you do what needs doing, no matter what it costs. If you have to run up a crippling debt to get healthcare for the kids, you do it. You can't escape family.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Phat, posted 04-09-2017 3:01 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM ringo has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 906
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 264 of 391 (810336)
05-28-2017 2:03 AM


Trump says Europe needs to spend $129 billion more yearly on weapons.
He bugged Saudi Arabia for months before they agreed to spend $350 billion more on financial aid to the well represented defense contractors.

He is spending a hefty $500 billion more over 10 years in his budget.

Looks like another $1 trillion is coming to the defense contractors.

Their "military analyst" funding investment has paid off well.

Talking heads are praising Trump on all the networks.

Except for the attempt to get peace with Russia part. We need more war, weapons, and destruction so let's condemn the folks that Russia might possibly "brainwash" into a peaceful relationship. Treason to have a cup of tea, to borrow a Hillary line.


    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 265 of 391 (816521)
08-05-2017 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
12-08-2011 10:22 AM


Re: Hollowed Out Middle Class
2011 Phat writes:

...These corporations are ruthless. One is either a stockholder/executive/management team or one is a serf.(labor)

And the US middle class is being trashed. It is one of the events that will, in my opinion, lead to World War III.

In retrospect, what I described did contribute to the election of Donald Trump, which may yet lead to World War III.

Much of his support base came from a hollowed out, angry middle class that was being forced into becoming a lower working class.

As for the implications regarding the future of money, I believe that several factors will play into the next great correction in our economy.

One pundit predicts a "A 50% Stock Market Crash ... a 40% Real Estate Meltdown, and 25% Unemployment ".

Even though he is selling his newslatter, his logic seems sound.

Stocks are again overvalued and yet market participation is minimal. The corporations themselves are borrowing money to buy their own stocks and raise the value.

Debt is an ever present concern.

Greed is at an all time high.

43 trillion dollars is riding on an active working force of baby boomers. When they retire, they will no longer contribute as much to taxes and the economy but will instead expect payouts such as social security.

Does anyone have reason for optimism in the face of such logic?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 12-08-2011 10:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 272 by ringo, posted 08-08-2017 12:35 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 266 of 391 (816524)
08-05-2017 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 263 by ringo
04-09-2017 3:17 PM


Re: The American Mindset
ringo writes:

This is an over-simplification but: Right-wingers tend to see government like a business whereas left-wingers see it more like a family.
In a business you're only concerned about the bottom line. If you're not making (enough) money, you can just shut the business down and go elsewhere.

In a family you do what needs doing, no matter what it costs. If you have to run up a crippling debt to get healthcare for the kids, you do it. You can't escape family.

OK, so Trump tries to run the country like a business, correct? So if the debt ends up becoming unsustainable, won't he simply pull the plug and allow the system to crash so that we can all start over with a new system? After all, Republicans always want the darn public to pay the debt rather than the wealthy.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 263 by ringo, posted 04-09-2017 3:17 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 08-05-2017 3:42 PM Phat has responded
 Message 271 by ringo, posted 08-08-2017 12:33 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29435
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 267 of 391 (816529)
08-05-2017 3:42 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Phat
08-05-2017 2:31 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Remember Trump has never declared personal bankruptcy. It seems he can live very well with other folk becoming bankrupt.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 2:31 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 11:15 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 268 of 391 (816538)
08-05-2017 11:15 PM
Reply to: Message 267 by jar
08-05-2017 3:42 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Also note this quote from Trumps book, The Art Of The Deal

In one section, he imagines how he would have responded to a hostile takeover attempt that played out in a different company.

"I'm not saying I would also have won, but if I went down, it would have been kicking and screaming," he wrote. "I would have closed the hotel and let it rot. That's just my makeup. I fight when I feel I'm getting screwed, even if it's costly and difficult and highly risky."

Would this be what he would do to our country?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 267 by jar, posted 08-05-2017 3:42 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 7:13 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29435
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 269 of 391 (816553)
08-06-2017 7:13 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Phat
08-05-2017 11:15 PM


Re: The American Mindset
Is that what he said he would do?

Does he have enough money and contacts outside the US to simply leave?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Phat, posted 08-05-2017 11:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 270 by Phat, posted 08-06-2017 3:29 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9890
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 270 of 391 (816578)
08-06-2017 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by jar
08-06-2017 7:13 AM


Re: The American Mindset
I dont see him leaving in the physical sense, though he likely has adequate assets to do so.I see him being stubborn as his ideas and obsessions get rejected by the political system and he finds himself a man with no platform.

He may become stubborn and even go so far as to start a war simply to have some sort of legacy.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by jar, posted 08-06-2017 7:13 AM jar has not yet responded

  
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