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Author Topic:   The Meaning Of The Trinity
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 314 of 1864 (811481)
06-08-2017 6:14 PM
Reply to: Message 313 by ringo
06-08-2017 11:36 AM


Re: Re-Trinity
Of course they are. Evil results don't require evil intentions.
Perhaps we've found our point of disagreement. Evil requires intention, although the intention may not be to do evil. A rock randomly falling from a hill is not evil even if it squashes someone. A person pushing said rock down a hill in a situation where he knows or recklessly ignores that someone will be killed is evil.
In your view, is a cheetah killing a gazelle evil?
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by ringo, posted 06-08-2017 11:36 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 315 by Davidjay, posted 06-08-2017 6:40 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 316 by ringo, posted 06-09-2017 11:45 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 318 of 1864 (811609)
06-09-2017 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 316 by ringo
06-09-2017 11:45 AM


Re: Re-Trinity
if somebody created a system which requires gazelles and carrots to suffer, that might be construed as evil.
"Might be construed..."
Not going to debate statements like that.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by ringo, posted 06-09-2017 11:45 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 319 by Davidjay, posted 06-09-2017 3:47 PM NoNukes has not replied
 Message 320 by ringo, posted 06-10-2017 11:39 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 332 of 1864 (811870)
06-13-2017 1:03 AM
Reply to: Message 330 by Stile
06-12-2017 2:56 PM


Re: Re-Trinity
New Cat's Eye is asking questions along the line of reasoning that occurs to me. I will ask some more direct questions.
Consider a world exactly the same as ours. Except one singular, heinous action simply doesn't exist. Let's pick... stealing children for the intention of putting them in human trafficking operations (sex slave type stuffs).
1. When the earth was created, no actions existed at all. No humans existed. Given humans, how do we prevent them from creating actions just because they do not already exist absent by restricting their free will? Describe to me a world with independent mobile folks each having free will in which it is impossible for one folk to exploit another against their will.
2. Obviously, we could create a world without sex at all, so perhaps arguments about eliminating one particular evil are not really even germane. You need to make a case that all potential evil can be removed without removing free will. I don't believe such a thing is possible, but even if you can eliminate one particular bad act, that is not enough.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 330 by Stile, posted 06-12-2017 2:56 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 9:19 AM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 340 of 1864 (811940)
06-13-2017 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 334 by Stile
06-13-2017 9:19 AM


Re: Re-Trinity
If my point is to say it's possible for us to be "slightly less evil than now" and just not become "robots."..... Why would I need to make a case that all potential evil can be removed without removing free will? My point includes evil still existing. Just not all of it.
Because you challenged my statement to ringo, and my statement is about the world with a complete lack of evil and not about one with a mere absence of your chosen one evil thing. I don't see how such a situation (completely evil-free world) could exist without limits on free will.
Apparently you agree, so perhaps we were just talking past one another.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King
I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson
Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith
Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000

This message is a reply to:
 Message 334 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 9:19 AM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 341 by Stile, posted 06-13-2017 2:49 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
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