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Author Topic:   The Marketing Of Christianity
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 375 of 591 (792440)
10-09-2016 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Phat
10-09-2016 8:39 PM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
Phat writes:
If a large group of individuals share a subjective belief, however, it would be under consideration as an objective (Object of our Faith=Jesus)
Good God that is embarrassing total misuse of language in an attempt to play with meanings.
Why do so many Christians seem their sole goal is to make Christianity look stupid and dishonest?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 10-09-2016 8:39 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 381 of 591 (792543)
10-11-2016 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 380 by Aussie
10-11-2016 9:48 AM


Re: God and suffering
Aussie writes:
Well there it is...I can't get over this, even though I was waiting for it. Phat! He is without excuse? Before your God? When will he be without excuse? I assume when he stands before the Great White Throne on the Day of Judgment? That moment when you as a sheep will be rewarded, and Tangle the goat will be herded into the Lake of Fire to burn and suffer unmitigated torture until the end of...Oh wait, IT WILL NEVER END!
Actually if you read the Sheep & Goats parable it is Tangle who would recognized as a Sheep while Phat would be a Goat.
quote:
The Sheep and the Goats
31 When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
37 Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’
40 The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’
41 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’
44 They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’
45 He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’
46 Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.
Note that the Sheep never did anything for Jesus while it is the Goats that fall back on the "when didn't we do for YOU?" defense.
The Sheep are those who didn't do for Jesus but did feed the hungry, clothe the naked, comforted the sorrowful, healed the sick; while the Goats are those who did do for Jesus but only for Jesus; the former surprised because they were not followers of Jesus and never did anything for Jesus while the later surprised because they were followers and always did for Jesus.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 380 by Aussie, posted 10-11-2016 9:48 AM Aussie has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 388 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 9:48 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 386 of 591 (792627)
10-12-2016 9:20 AM
Reply to: Message 385 by Pressie
10-12-2016 9:09 AM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
Pressie writes:
My opinion is that, when an overwhelming majority of specialists on a subject, whether they are green or black or white or brown, whether they live in Antartica or Argentina or the USA or Germany or Zambia or Russia or Japan; whether they are Christian, Islamitic or Jewish or Buddhist or atheist or agnostic; reach similar conclusions after research on a specific subject and publish their data and findings in appropriate scientific journals.
And the findings are accepted by the vast majority of specialists on the subject. Whether they are white or brown or black or green. Whether the live in Canada or Brazil or Australia or Vietnam or Poland. Whether they are Catholic or Protestant or Muslim or Buddhist or New Age or Zorochastrian or atheist or agnostic.
That's an indication of objectivity.
While that is true is it really relevant?
If an individual looks at a pile of coins and then separates the coins into piles based on the features common to all the coins in each pile is that not being objective?
Isn't objectivity the process itself whether done by one individual or a group?
Isn't objectivity simply having an explainable rational for a set of acts?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Pressie, posted 10-12-2016 9:09 AM Pressie has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 390 of 591 (792631)
10-12-2016 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 388 by Phat
10-12-2016 9:48 AM


Re: Sheep,Goats,and steel cut Oats
Phat writes:
It would be my contention that the goats were not putting in work out of obedience to the Spirit but, rather, were only showing off to gain worldly acclaim.
But that is not what the story says. The story specifically says "When did we ever not do for YOU?" The story says they were specifically doing FOR Jesus with no mention of worldly gain or any gain whatsoever.
Phat writes:
Additionally, if the sheep that got let in the door were actually clueless of Gods existence,nature, and rules...they would have an excuse!
Again, the story covers that, the sheep are quoted as saying "Wait, we never did anything for YOU!"

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 9:48 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 392 of 591 (792633)
10-12-2016 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 389 by Phat
10-12-2016 9:54 AM


Re: God and suffering
Phat writes:
Does this mean the hungry,naked, sorrowful, and sick in our own tribe or does it emphasize helping the other tribes?
According to Jesus God says it specifically means other tribes. Look at Luke 4.
quote:
24 Truly I tell you, he continued, no prophet is accepted in his hometown. 25 I assure you that there were many widows in Israel in Elijah’s time, when the sky was shut for three and a half years and there was a severe famine throughout the land. 26 Yet Elijah was not sent to any of them, but to a widow in Zarephath in the region of Sidon. 27 And there were many in Israel with leprosy in the time of Elisha the prophet, yet not one of them was cleansedonly Naaman the Syrian.
Note the bold and unlined parts.
This is the reason Jesus was rejected by the Hebrews; he told them they were NOT the chosen people but rather all people, all things are Gods chosen ones.
Today's Christians would act much like the Hebrews of Jesus time when told they aren't the chosen ones; rather all people, all things are Gods chosen ones.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 389 by Phat, posted 10-12-2016 9:54 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 402 of 591 (792900)
10-14-2016 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
10-14-2016 7:00 PM


Re: Objectivity and Subjectivity
Phat writes:
The problem with a lot of you is that you have believed lies about what the Bible is, what it says, and even who wrote it.
And I suppose that you actually have some support for that accusation?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 10-14-2016 7:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 409 of 591 (792991)
10-18-2016 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 407 by Phat
10-18-2016 9:28 AM


Re: Limited Exposure To Beliefs
Phat writes:
Phat writes:
Do you consider the idea that the messenger is the message appropriate?
jar writes:
I consider that a meaningless assertion; just plain silly.
Evidently you believe that it is what we do and not about what He did.
I cannot imagine how you could possibly yet again totally misrepresent my position based on what was quoted. How do you do it?
Phat writes:
Would I be correct in assuming that you believe that being a "good" or productive Christian does not even require a Living Christ?
Well first you would have to explain what a Living Christ might even be. That seemed like nothing but more word salad.
But being a "good" or productive Christian first requires being a member of one of the Chapters of Club Christian and then depends on your behavior. I cannot see how any Christ would be a requirement. Perhaps you could explain those issues?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by Phat, posted 10-18-2016 9:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Phat, posted 11-23-2016 11:04 AM jar has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 420 of 591 (811645)
06-10-2017 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by Phat
06-10-2017 12:10 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
Worshipping nature includes the deification of human wisdom.
Phat, that is something that only exists in the minds of the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
There is no evidence of any other form of wisdom than human wisdom (and the wisdom of other living critters). There has never even been an example of any wisdom other than human wisdom offered or presented.
There is no evidence of human wisdom ever being deified. The closest example of that might be Ganesha but even there Ganesha is only the remover of obstacles that can lead to enlightenment. Even there we find balance since Ganesha is also capable of creating obstacles to frustrate all those whose ambition has become so great as to be destructive.
Notice that even what you quoted really says absolutely nothing about human wisdom and is itself an example of human wisdom.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 12:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 7:31 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 422 of 591 (811654)
06-10-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 421 by Phat
06-10-2017 7:31 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
I do not believe, however, that the God the authors were describing was invented by them.
Why? Based on what other than your human wisdom?
Phat writes:
I believe that the God they were describing had been experienced and/or perceived by them.
Why? Based on what other than your human wisdom?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 421 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 7:31 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 1:55 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 428 of 591 (811694)
06-10-2017 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Phat
06-10-2017 1:55 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
Another rabbi, more inclined to prefer logic, reason, and reality...may label G-d as unknowable and also declare all scripture to be essentially mythology.
To judge between the two viewpoints, one would, of course, use their human wisdom. We all have wisdom that we prefer to be true.
No Phat, we all have things we prefer to be true. Wisdom though is being able to tell the difference between what can be shown to be true and what we only want to be true.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Phat, posted 06-10-2017 1:55 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 429 by Davidjay, posted 06-10-2017 11:19 PM jar has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 433 of 591 (812179)
06-15-2017 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 432 by Phat
06-15-2017 9:50 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
The extremism is found in the eagerness to even bring up alternatives...often so readily...in an attempt to discredit the original.
Critics would say that they see no advantage to the original and see it as one of many alternatives.
The original???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Pray tell, who might that be?
Or do you mean the god you have created?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 432 by Phat, posted 06-15-2017 9:50 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 442 of 591 (812956)
06-21-2017 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 437 by Phat
06-21-2017 12:03 PM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
jar is correct in that the GOD Who is, IF GOD exists, is far different than any of us could imagine or try to market.
Where I disagree with jar is that he implies that GOD is unconcerned whether we believe or not.
Why?
Do you think the creator of all that is, seen and unseen would really care whether or not anyone believed?
Pre-teen boys and girls worry about whether someone believes in them or likes them but hopefully they do not remain teens.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 437 by Phat, posted 06-21-2017 12:03 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 3:25 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 445 of 591 (813000)
06-22-2017 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 443 by Phat
06-22-2017 3:25 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
Your reasoning would have merit IF God expected us to do it all ourselves. Personally, I think your beliefs were largely influenced by how you grew up.
First, of course a persons beliefs are influenced by how they grow up. That is true for everyone.
But there are very few instances in the Bible of God not expecting the people to do it all themselves and lots and lots of examples of God actually telling them to do it themselves.
Do you remember the Bible story of Joseph?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 443 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 3:25 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 446 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 9:56 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 448 of 591 (813023)
06-22-2017 10:16 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Phat
06-22-2017 9:56 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Do you remember the dream and it's interpretation?
AbE:
Who is supposed to put stocks away for the future? Who is supposed to prepare for the Lean Years?
Edited by jar, : hit wrong key

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 446 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 9:56 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 449 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 10:28 AM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 393 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 450 of 591 (813031)
06-22-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by Phat
06-22-2017 10:28 AM


Re: God Unplugged
Phat writes:
Darn it jar, I don't want the God I believe in to be so darn non-favoring.
Two different things and as long as you remember that all is fine.
You create the God you believe in.
The God in the Joseph fable is the God the author of that story created.
The God in Genesis 2&3 is kinda like what you want. Even after Adam & Eve screwed up that God made them clothes and stayed in touch with them in future chapters of the story that author created.
Though the God the author of Genesis 1 created has absolutely no contact or communion with any of the creations.
We can only worship the gods we create.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 10:28 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 452 by Phat, posted 06-22-2017 10:58 AM jar has replied

  
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