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Author Topic:   2014 was hotter than 1998. 2015 data in yet?
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10066
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


(2)
Message 346 of 357 (810080)
05-23-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by ICANT
05-21-2017 10:17 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
It does not make any difference whether we contribute global warming or not.

The Sun is going to get so big it will swallow the earth about 4 billion years from now. Which means that it will cease to have water a long time before then.

This has to be about the silliest argument I've heard, ICANT.

Global warming will be a problem for our children and grand children. None of them have to worry about the sun getting hotter due to consuming its hydrogen and helium.

That means that the Sun is increasing in size every day which is making the earth warmer.

The sun increases in size a tiny amount up until the time when the core starts burning helium. Your argument has a gross conceptual error. Here is a similar argument.

You are going to die one day, so why buy any groceries this week?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by ICANT, posted 05-21-2017 10:17 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 1:45 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 13881
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 347 of 357 (810093)
05-23-2017 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 342 by ICANT
05-21-2017 10:17 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
ICANT writes:

So which is it that is doing the damage, man or the Sun?

quote:
Ever since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun. I shall do the next best thing: block it out.
--Mr. Burns

Maybe you shouldn't get your science info from cartoons.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by ICANT, posted 05-21-2017 10:17 PM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:26 PM ringo has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1000
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 348 of 357 (810950)
06-03-2017 10:22 AM


Is solar power about to become a BASE LOAD (?) capable energy source in India? Unreal
The Saturday June 3, 2017 New York Times doesn't use the term "base load" but it sure does sound like it is an accurate interpretation of the text in the article, Until Recently a Coal Goliath, Energy-Hungry India Is Rapidly Turning Green

Here is the shocking snip, on A10, which is where the front page A1 story led to.

quote:

In approving proposals for new solar power plants, the Indian government seeks bids from prospective builders who compete to pledge the lowest price at which they anticipate selling power.

Five years ago, the lowest bid came in at 7 rupees, or 11 cents, per kilowatt-hour. In early May, the lowest bidder came in at less than half of that price, or 2.44 rupees per kilowatt-hour, a little under 4 cents, experts here say.

The latest bid makes solar power less expensive than coal, which sells for about 3 rupees per kilowatt-hour.

Storage costs, a critical component of renewable energy systems, have also fallen. "The crucial question has been, 'Yes, but what do you do when the wind doesn't blow and the sun doesn't shine?' " said Adair Turner, the chairman of the Energy Transitions Commission, which studies climate issues.

The cost of lithium ion batteries, the gold standard in solar power storage, has fallen significantly, Mr. Turner said, largely because of economies of scale. Where the price was about $1,000 per kilowatt-hour more than five years ago, it is now $273 and dropping, Mr. Mathur said.

The price needs to fall to $100 per kilowatt-hour for renewable energy to be comparable in price to coal, Mr. Mathur says. Mr. Turner thinks that will happen far sooner than the year 2030, which his group had been predicting.


I think the environmental community needs a New Deal offer to negotiate with political decision makers.

It can go something like this :

"Once the alternative energy sources - specifically wind and solar - become both total BASE LOAD CAPABLE and cheaper "new power" sources than gas & coal, then we shall agree to build the installations and then shut down the conventionally powered plants ".

The shutting down of existing plants before the normal decommissioning (retirement date when the older plants expire ) means that the newer built (solar for example ) plants will be "more expensive" energy ( since being the cheapest "new energy" source IF NOTHING IS PRESENT TO START WITH isn't the same thing as shutting down something already up and running ), but the fact that the renewable energy is base load would be so utterly game changing that the argument, for the government financing - as part of a "free stuff" social program - the building of the new utility UPFRONT (which would, first, create construction jobs, then enable cheaper energy thereafter without further subsidies or supplemented power from conventional sources ) , would make fairy decent economic sense.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 349 of 357 (812234)
06-15-2017 1:45 PM
Reply to: Message 346 by NoNukes
05-23-2017 11:06 AM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
Hi NoNukes,

NoNukes writes:

Global warming will be a problem for our children and grand children. None of them have to worry about the sun getting hotter due to consuming its hydrogen and helium.

Was there trees and vegetation growing in the artic circles where there is ice today, at one time in the past?

If not how did the material for the oil get there to produce the oil that is there.

How much warmer was the earth when there was no polar caps?

You guys have too much faith in what you are told.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by NoNukes, posted 05-23-2017 11:06 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 350 of 357 (812243)
06-15-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 347 by ringo
05-23-2017 12:02 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
Hi ringo,

ringo writes:

Maybe you shouldn't get your science info from cartoons.

I don't think Scientific America, Smithsonian.com, or Penn State Science, would take kindly to you calling them a cartoon.

In Scientific America September issue 2008 they had an article by David Appeil titled, The Sun will Eventually Engulf Earth...Maybe. It was previously published as, "A Solar Big Gulp".

In the article it talks about the sun expanding as well as getting brighter.

The Smithsonian published an article August 21, 2012.
Title: Earth Will Die a Hot Horrible Death when the Sun Expands and Swallows Us, and Now We Know What That Looks Like.

It seems some Astronomers "BD+48 740 signs that it had recently enveloped and consumed one of its planets. Which is what the Sun will do to earth.

The original story can be found...http://science.psu.edu/news-and-events/2012-news/Wolszczan8-2012.

God Bless,


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by ringo, posted 05-23-2017 12:02 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by jar, posted 06-15-2017 3:00 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 353 by ringo, posted 06-16-2017 11:40 AM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 354 by NosyNed, posted 06-16-2017 12:03 PM ICANT has not yet responded
 Message 355 by NoNukes, posted 06-17-2017 1:28 AM ICANT has not yet responded

    
ICANT
Member
Posts: 5627
From: SSC
Joined: 03-12-2007


Message 351 of 357 (812246)
06-15-2017 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 343 by Taq
05-22-2017 11:40 AM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
Hi Taq

Taq writes:

Where did you hear that from?

Science papers.

God Bless


"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Taq, posted 05-22-2017 11:40 AM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by Taq, posted 06-19-2017 12:46 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29622
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 352 of 357 (812247)
06-15-2017 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ICANT
06-15-2017 2:26 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
It is not those publications people are laughing at. It is your silly idea that the warming is caused by the sun expanding that is so laughable.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 13881
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 353 of 357 (812406)
06-16-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by ICANT
06-15-2017 2:26 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
ICANT writes:

In Scientific America September issue 2008 they had an article by David Appeil titled, The Sun will Eventually Engulf Earth...Maybe. It was previously published as, "A Solar Big Gulp".


Did you miss the words "eventually" and "maybe"? Does the article suggest that it has anything to do with the earth warming NOW?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8800
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 9.9


(4)
Message 354 of 357 (812417)
06-16-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by ICANT
06-15-2017 2:26 PM


Not Guilty
Your honour, I am not guilty of murdering my 20 year old brother. It was a mercy killing since he was dying.
Science tells me he was going to be dead of old age in less than 80 years.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10066
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 355 of 357 (812507)
06-17-2017 1:28 AM
Reply to: Message 350 by ICANT
06-15-2017 2:26 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
It seems some Astronomers "BD+48 740 signs that it had recently enveloped and consumed one of its planets. Which is what the Sun will do to earth.

Yes, ICANT. That is one of the possibilities for what might happen 5 billion years from now. So why even buy sunscreen this summer when we know that the oceans are going to boil away in the future?

Are quote miners real people?

From the article...

quote:
A similar fate may await the inner planets in our solar system, when the Sun becomes a red giant and expands all the way out to Earth's orbit some five-billion years from now...

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Not really, it is a theory that is imposed on nature so consistently that you think you are observing it. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:26 PM ICANT has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 356 of 357 (812682)
06-19-2017 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 351 by ICANT
06-15-2017 2:54 PM


Re: 2016 Hottest on Record
ICANT writes:

Science papers.

You will need to quote and cite those science papers for us.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 351 by ICANT, posted 06-15-2017 2:54 PM ICANT has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1000
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 357 of 357 (820758)
09-26-2017 5:53 PM


A very important trade issue is in Trump's hands.
quote:

By Matthew Daly / Associated Press

Posted Sep 23, 2017 at 1:28 PM
Updated Sep 23, 2017 at 1:31 PM

WASHINGTON Low-cost solar panels imported from China and other countries have caused serious injury to American manufacturers, a U.S. trade commission ruled Friday, raising the possibility of the Trump administration imposing tariffs that could double the price of solar panels from abroad.

The 4-0 vote by the International Trade Commission sets up a two-month review period in which the panel must recommend a remedy to President Donald Trump, with a final decision on tariffs expected in January.

White House spokeswoman Natalie Strom said Trump will examine the facts and make a determination that reflects the best interests of the United States. The U.S. solar manufacturing sector contributes to our energy security and economic prosperity.

Georgia-based Suniva Inc. and Oregon-based SolarWorld Americas brought the case, saying a flood of imports have pushed them to the brink of extinction. Suniva declared bankruptcy, while SolarWorld had to lay off three-quarters of its workforce.

Cheap imports have led to a boom in the U.S. solar industry, where rooftop and other installations have surged tenfold since 2011.

The main trade group for the solar industry and many governors oppose tariffs, saying they could cause a sharp price hike that would lead to a drop in solar installations by more than 50 percent in two years.

Abigail Ross Hopper, president and CEO of the Solar Energy Industries Association, called the trade commissions vote disappointing for nearly 9,000 U.S. solar companies and the 260,000 Americans they employ.

Foreign-owned companies that brought business failures on themselves are attempting to exploit American trade laws to gain a bailout for their bad investments, Hopper said, warning that potential tariffs could double the price of solar installations, lowering U.S. demand and risking billions of dollars in investment

http://www.thetimesnews.com/...lar-imports-hurt-us-companies


Read on and see that Trump will weigh the evidence before deciding to impose crippling and job ruining tariffs.

Utility scale solar (which rooftop solar panels are not included) produced about 21.75 giga watts of electricity in 2016. That came to about 2% of all utility scale power.

Wind was over 6% of all utility scale power.

That means that the 8% in 2016 and perhaps 9% in 2017(?) will be about 1/7 the total output of the fossil fuel percentage. The ratio was about 13:1 in 2014 so the perhaps 7:1 ratio for 2017 is impressive progress.

Free trade creates American jobs and this whole solar panel issue proves it.

Or put another way:

Low cost Chinese imports do not hurt American jobs.

Or another way:

Free trade with China helps create more American jobs than we would have otherwise.

WHY?

HOW?

Because lower cost products help the retail and installation industry massively.

Because the thousands of saved consumer dollars can then be spent on something else (American consumers get the same solar product but have tons of $$$ left over to make many other big purchases) and yet more jobs are created still.

And what about the benefit of having lots of energy from the sun captured for use (as opposed to simply being wasted which happens when there aren't ever more solar panels to catch the rays)?

Free Trade is major driver of worldwide growth and we need to show Trump that we know it.


    
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