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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 151 of 381 (813256)
06-25-2017 6:22 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
06-25-2017 6:17 AM


Violence inherent in Marxism itself
Page 36:
Cult of Violence
Engels wrote in Anti-Duhring, "Universal love for men is an absurdity." And in a letter to a friend he said, "We need hate rather than love - at least for now"
Che Guevara learned his Marxist lessons well. In his writings he echoes Engels' sentiments:
Hate is an element of fight-pitiless hate against the foe, hate that lifts the revolutionist above the natural limitation of man and makes him become an efficient, destructive, cool, calculating, and cold killing machine.
This is what the Devil wishes to make of men. He has succeeded all too well with many notorious leaders of the human race. In our lifetime we have witnessed more than our share: Hitler, Eichmann, Mengele, Stalin, Mao, Andropov, Pol Pot
Marx writes in The Communist Manifesto:
The Communists despise making a secret of their opinions and intentions. They openly declare that their aims can be reached only through the violent overthrow of the whole existing social structure. - There is only one method to shorten the murderous pains of death of the old society, the bloody birth pangs of the new society; only one method to simplify and concentrate them, that is revolutionary terrorism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 6:17 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by caffeine, posted 06-26-2017 2:08 PM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 152 of 381 (813257)
06-25-2017 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Faith
06-25-2017 6:17 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
quote:
I note that you give no evidence yourself, just make assertions
Which can easily be confirmed.
quote:
Wurmbrand says Eleanor's marriage had Marx's approval,
Aveling
In 1884, Aveling became the partner of Eleanor "Tussy" Marx, the daughter of Karl Marx
Eleanor Marx
In 1884, Eleanor joined the Social Democratic Federation (SDF) led by Henry Hyndman and was elected to its executive. During her work in the SDF, she met Edward Aveling, with whom she would spend the rest of her life.
Karl Marx died in March 1883
How could Marx approve of a "marriage" to a man that Eleanor had not even met before he died ?
quote:
and the poem attributed to her husband is certainly Satan worship
It is certainly a poem, and thus very likely not to be taken literally.
quote:
Even if you were right that the marriage came after Marx's death it must say something about Marx that his favorite daughter would marry a Satan worshiper.
It is easy enough to check. And since you have yet to provide any real evidence that Aveling was a Satan worshipper it says more about you and Wurmbrand than it does about Marx.
quote:
And there's a lot more evidence of such Satanic themes among Marx's friends, so the evidence is hardly confined to Eleanor's husband.
If you have good evidence you don't waste your time with trash like this.
Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 6:17 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 6:55 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 153 of 381 (813260)
06-25-2017 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by PaulK
06-25-2017 6:34 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
The poem by Aveling is overt Satan worship. So are statements by Bakunin and others already quoted. Satanic sympathies are likely to be suppressed in biographies wouldn't you guess? Either because the biographer doesn't take them seriously or because they would prejudice people against the person. It takes a Wurmbrand to bring out such sympathies where he finds them.
I wonder if the Marxist writings that haven't been made public would exhibit more overt Satanism in Marx himself. I wonder if we'll ever find out.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 6:34 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:39 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 154 of 381 (813262)
06-25-2017 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Faith
06-25-2017 6:55 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
What a biographer does or does not include depends on the aims of the biographer. A biographer does not have to be sympathetic to his subject.
More importantly, making excuses for the absence of evidence - while a staple of conspiracy theorists - does not change the fact that the evidence is absent.
If you are reduced to relying on weak circumstantial evidence to generate weak circumstantial evidence then you do not have a case. It speaks ill of Wurmbrand that he is reduced to such tactics.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 6:55 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 7:43 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 155 of 381 (813263)
06-25-2017 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by PaulK
06-25-2017 7:39 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
I think the evidence is quite good and I think anyone not a convinced follower of Marx would take it seriously. I don't worry about small errors of fact myself, and since I don't expect to convince you of anything anyway, ever, I'm not worried about your opinion either. Take it or leave it. I think it's interesting enough to post.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:39 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 156 of 381 (813264)
06-25-2017 7:53 AM


Main interest in killing God?
Wurmbrand next gets into examples of satanic style mockery of the Lord's Prayer as recited in Communist circles. He makes a good case, it seems to me, that the founders of Marxism and their closest followers, care more about trying to kill Christianity than they care about any of the social tenets that are their supposed main concern. Which would of course be in keeping with Satan's objectives.
Mockery of the Lord's Prayer is customary in many Communist lands.
Ethiopian children were taught to pray as follows:
Our Party which rulest in the Soviet Union,
Hallowed be thy name,
Thy Kingdom come, Thy will be done
in Ethiopia and in the whole world.
43
Give us this day our daily bread,
and don't forgive the trespasses of the Imperialists as we will not forgive them.
And may we resist the temptation to abandon the fight,
And deliver us from the evils of Capitalism.
Amen.
Over an Ethiopian Lutheran radio station confiscated by the Communist government, a Satanist version of the Bible a was broadcast. First Corinthians 13 sounded like this:
Though I speak all the languages and have no enmity toward the landlords and capitalists, I have become as sounding brass.... Class hatred suffers no exploitation and is brutal. Class hatred envies their riches and vaunts itself with the successful revolutions in many Socialist states.... And now abide faith, hope, and class hatred, but the greatest of these is revolutionist hatred.
Class hatred. Exactly. That's what Marxism promotes. Marxism is the cause of all the polarizing politics we are suffering from today. Trying to reconcile Marxism with American principles of freedom is a lost cause, it can't be done, and it's delusional to pretend it's possible.
During the general strike organized by the French Communists in 1974, workers were called to march in the streets of Paris shouting the slogan, "Giscard d'Estaing est foutu, les dmons sont dans la rue! (Giscard d'Estaing [then French president] is done with. Demons are now in the street)." Why not "the proletariat" or "the people"? Why this evocation of Satanic forces? What has this to do with the legitimate demands of the working class to have better salaries?
Indeed.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:03 AM Faith has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 157 of 381 (813265)
06-25-2017 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Faith
06-25-2017 7:43 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
quote:
I think the evidence is quite good and I think anyone not a convinced follower of Marx would take it seriously.
I'm not any sort of follower of Marx and there is nothing worth taking seriously as evidence that Marx actually worshipped Satan.
On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that Wurmbrand's book is a waste of time. Thanks for providing that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 7:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:02 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 381 (813266)
06-25-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by PaulK
06-25-2017 7:57 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
Why? You wouldn't have read it anyway.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 7:57 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 8:06 AM Faith has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 159 of 381 (813267)
06-25-2017 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Faith
06-25-2017 7:53 AM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
Faith writes:
Class hatred. Exactly. That's what Marxism promotes.
Except once again reality says you are simply posting falsehoods.
There is no class hatred in Marxism. That is another lie that is marketed by your source.
What Marx makes clear is the fact that society can be described using classes where the term involves characteristics.
Are you claiming that the wealthy do not exist?
Are you claiming there are not business owners and workers?
Are you so deluded that you think business owners and workers do not have different needs and priorities?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 7:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:08 AM jar has replied
 Message 196 by caffeine, posted 06-26-2017 2:16 PM jar has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 160 of 381 (813268)
06-25-2017 8:06 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
06-25-2017 8:02 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
I probably wouldn't have. I might have had it been better and relevant. But it wasn't relevant before and now I know that it is worthless even if it's subject should be of relevance to me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:02 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:12 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 161 of 381 (813269)
06-25-2017 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
06-25-2017 8:03 AM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
So you think the confiscated Ethiopian Lutheran radio station didn't broadcast that Communist Satanist version of 1 Corinthians 13?
Of course there are classes in society, always have been, always will be. We don't need class hatred, we don't need the evil Marxist analysis that pits one against another, the Marxist recipe for violence of the formula Oppressor versus Oppressed, we need a Christian mindset to promote equity and fairness. America in fact has always been known for its success at that very unifying way of thinking. Marxism would kill that and is doing its best right now to kill it. The Left really really needs to wake up, find out what America is really all about, which has nothing to do with Marxism which is only trying to destroy it.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:51 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 381 (813270)
06-25-2017 8:12 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by PaulK
06-25-2017 8:06 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
Well I'm sorry it isn't good enough for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 8:06 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by PaulK, posted 06-25-2017 8:14 AM Faith has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 163 of 381 (813271)
06-25-2017 8:14 AM
Reply to: Message 162 by Faith
06-25-2017 8:12 AM


Re: Son in Law into Satanism
I'm sorry that it is good enough for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:12 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 395 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 164 of 381 (813272)
06-25-2017 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Faith
06-25-2017 8:08 AM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
Faith writes:
So you think the confiscated Ethiopian Lutheran radio station didn't broadcast that Communist Satanist version of 1 Corinthians 13?
Correct. I do not believe that. It sounds like the typical Fundy televangelist bullshit.
Faith writes:
We don't need class hatred, we don't need the evil Marxist analysis that pits one against another, the Marxist recipe for violence of the formula Oppressor versus Oppressed, we need a Christian mindset to promote equity and fairness.
Yet more misrepresentation from you Faith. Marxism does not promote hatred of classes rather it tries to honestly explain the different goals and needs of the classes.
And the Christian mindset is another absurdity. There is no such thing as "The Christian Mindset" as is clear from your posts.
Faith writes:
America in fact has always been known for its success at that very unifying way of thinking.
Again, reality simply shows you are posting utter nonsense.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 8:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2391 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(3)
Message 165 of 381 (813273)
06-25-2017 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
06-24-2017 11:04 PM


Re: Marxism is no solution to human problems
quote:
There's some really silly idea that the wealth possessed by the wealthy deprives others of wealth, as if there's some finite amount to go around. But wealth is created by enterprise, it grows, it isn't static. Until you start taking it away from people and giving it to others. THEN you produce poverty.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S1057521914001070
This study establishes for the first time empirically that banks individually create money out of nothing. The money supply is created as ‘fairy dust’ produced by the banks individually, "out of thin air".
It's not some silly idea Faith. Our money supply is created as credit, by banks. Anyone who repays his own debt and has a surplus is therefore leaving someone else in deficit. New money can be created to fill the gap but this is only kicking the can down the road. The banking system works in the opposite way of the tax system. The tax system takes (mostly) from the wealthy to redistribute to the poor. The banks take interest from 99% of people and give it to the 1%. Without the latter, perhaps the former would be nearly obsolete..
quote:
What would it entail for "the many to leverage their number against the few?" Exactly what does that mean in practical reality?
Exactly what it says on the tin. Democrats and republicans are both bought and paid for by the corporations and their lobbyists. They get away with it because too many people play the same Dem/Rep game. Leveraging our number means uniting under a banner of common goals, such as implementing 'capitalism light'. If the people stop bickering between themselves and make their demands united, no amount of lobbying or money can stop them.
quote:
And exactly how are the wealthy few "blatantly manipulating our democracies?"
This question really boggles the mind in this day and age. Lobbying with big money is legalised bribery. Capitalists aren't donating to politicians, they're investing in them and they expect a return. Do you actually need specific examples?
Aside from that you've got the propaganda of the msm manipulating public opinion on wars, the economy, terrorism, unemployment and so on.
Gerrymeandering by both sides to keep out competition, further reinforcing the idea that both sides are corrupt and care only about themselves.
The amount of foreign donations received by our pollies is outrageous, we're very nearly being run by Chinese billionaires. Again, I don't think the 'donors' have our interests at heart.
Is it your position that the wealthy deserve to do with their money what they like? Even manipulate the political process? Do not mistake my outrage at the way the world is being run by vested interests in broad daylight for envy of the wealthy. It is not that they are wealthy, it is that the systems we have in place are corrupted by them to the detriment of the many..
ABE - I am often referred to as a commie and a lefty but I don't really subscribe to any sort of dogma, perhaps humanism if you must label me. I found the communist manifesto to be a prediction, it didn't pan out. No need to base any modern policy on the musings of dead guys..
Edited by Riggamortis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 11:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
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