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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
JonF Member (Idle past 169 days) Posts: 6174 Joined: |
it seems to me that private wealth is a good thing for society. Excessive private wealth, such as we have in the US, is good for those who have it and bad for society overall. Not that I'm any kind of Marxist. As both California and Kansas have demonstrated, the solution is higher taxes on the wealthy, which leads to large economic growth. Lowering taxes produces economic disaster. But this is all way OT. Got anything relevant to say? Edited by JonF, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
I don't think wealth is the problem, I think fallen human nature is the problem, and Marxist principles are not the solution. Nothing you've said really addresses Marxist versus Capitalist issues anyway. You can be wealthy and a Marxist, and there are lots of those these days, lots more and lots wealthier than on the Right I suspect. Republicans are not necessarily Capitalists, Democrats are not necessarily Marxists, there are lots of economic problems that have nothing to do with that dichotomy anyway. I believe I said I'm for laws restraining exploitation, I'm aware that wealth can be used for bad purposes but I'm far from convinced that anything you've said addresses the real issues, or that they can be addressed by Marxism versus Capitalism at all.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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JonF Member (Idle past 169 days) Posts: 6174 Joined:
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othing you've said really addresses Marxist versus Capitalist issues anyway. True. And nothing you have said addresses Marxism vs Capitalism.
I'm aware that wealth can be used for bad purposes but I'm far from convinced that anything you've said addresses the real issues, or that they can be addressed by Marxism versus Capitalism at all. Marxism vs capitalism is not an issue in the US and hasn't been for quite some time. The real issue is Republican tax dogma. Trickle-down economics doesn't work. It has never worked. It will never work. But it does accomplish what the Republican politicians want: more wealth for the wealthy, less wealth for the middle class and poor.
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Chiroptera Inactive Member
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Republicans are not necessarily Capitalists... Capitalism is about individuals owning businesses ("the means of production") and paying other people wages to work for them. Which Republicans don't believe in private ownership? -
...Democrats are not necessarily Marxists. "Not necessarily"? Marxism is about (among other things) eliminating private ownership of capital and putting the means of production under the control of the workers. Which Democrats specifically want to eliminate privately owned capital? -
...or that they can be addressed by Marxism versus Capitalism at all. I'm sure everyone already knows this, but just to make sure, not all socialists are Marxists. So "Marxism versus Capitalism" isn't the dichotomy since it doesn't include a lot of other stuff. I realize that this thread is specifically about Marxism, but I thought this needed to be said.Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
The Bible forbids giving to the rich. So then you are saying that the Republicans are anti-Bible Satanists because they are so insistent of taking from the poor and giving to the rich?
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Oh nonsense. That's a weirdo Marxist idea in itself.
Besides, being a sinner doesn't make you a Satanist. You have to have the objective of killing Christianity and a lot of the human race to be a Satanist. And to respond generally to the last few posts, I merely meant there are Republicans who think like Marxists and Democrats who think like Capitalists. AND I don't really want to get into Marxist economics on this thread anyway, although if someone can discuss it briefly and sharply that would be fine. I'm more interested in the general Marxism that pits one class against another and that is as much a part of Cultural Marxism as economic Marxism. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
By the way I believe the reader pronounced "Friedrich" correctly, how do you think it should be pronounced?) I think the 'ch' at the end should not sound as in 'chase', but like in 'loch' - though a bit harder. I was listening again to the You Tube reading and to me it sounds like a soft "sh" rather than a hard "ch." It's not as soft as the German but it's a lot closer than "ch" as in "chase." As I hear it anyway. And the guy IS an American after all. It's amazing he could get that close to the German sound. Any time you want to do Chapter Two is fine with me. I could use a distraction. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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ringo Member (Idle past 413 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So there's no such thing as a Satanist.
You have to have the objective of killing Christianity and a lot of the human race to be a Satanist.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Really? I guess you did't read anything I've quoted from the book Marx and Satan? All the pitiless denunciations of God and Christ and the whole human race? And there's more there I haven't yet quoted and may not. How about Aleister Crowley (and he does have followers today too).
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ringo Member (Idle past 413 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What have denunciations of God and Christ got to do with "killing Christianity and a lot of the human race"?
All the pitiless denunciations of God and Christ and the whole human race?
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jar Member (Idle past 395 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Your book is not evidence of anything except the fact that a nutjob wrote a book and some people actually believe that foolish material in it.
Fortunately most Satanists have a better chance of making it to heaven than most Christians. BUT...nothing your nutjob guy wrote has anything to do with Marxism in today's Leftism. As usual you have totally failed to present one single iota of support for the topic or even the existence of Leftism. Classic Fail as usual Faith.
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dwise1 Member Posts: 5930 Joined: Member Rating: 5.8 |
I was listening again to the You Tube reading and to me it sounds like a soft "sh" rather than a hard "ch." It's not as soft as the German but it's a lot closer than "ch" as in "chase." I speak German, so I know something about these things. There are two different ways to pronounce "ch" depending on the kind of vowel that precedes it. One way of classifying vowels, the one that counts here, is by where in the mouth it's formed: front, center, or back. Also, German vowels are similar to Spanish, so please forget the English mispronunciation of the letter "i", which in English is a diphthong. The front vowels are i, e, , and . The back vowels are a, o, and u. The central vowel is the schwa, the unaccented vowel "uh", which sounds different in English, French, and German. We're only interested here in the front and back vowels. The German "ch" sound that most Americans think of is the voiceless dorso-velar fricative. It is formed in the back of the mouth by moving the back of the tongue ("dorso") close to the soft palate, the velum ("velar"), as you force air through ("fricative"). That one appears after back vowels as in "Bach", "ach!", "doch", "Buch". German has no voiced version of it, but I understand that Dutch does have one, as well as modern Greek, I think. The other German "ch" sound, the one you're talking about, is a voiceless fronto-palatal fricative -- ie, voiceless, formed farther forward in the mouth using the hard palate instead of the velum. It appears after front vowels as in "ich", "Becher", "Friedrich". To the untrained American English ear, it may sound similar to and American English "sh", but it's pronounced farther back in the mouth than the American English "sh". They are still noticeably different from each other. The "ch" can also come after a consonant, in which case I'm not sure about the rules. For example, "Mnchen", "manchmal", and "durch" all use the palatal "ch", but "Dolch" ("dagger" as in "Dolchsto", Ludendorff's infamous "stab in the back" excuse for having lost WWI) uses the velar. The voiceless pre-palatal fricative (German "sch") is a bit tighter and a bit more forward than the American English "sh", plus the lips protude more and are more rounded rather that just hanging there loose. The English "ch" is an entirely different beast altogether. It is not a single consonant sound like the others, but rather it's an [i]affricate/i, a combination of two consonants, in this case a stop ("t") and a fricative ("sh"). To form the English "ch", you start with a "t" and shift into an "sh". In German, that sound only comes from borrowed words and is written "tsch". The same in French where it's written "tch", which is the convention used to transcribe that sound from Russian in English as in the name, Tchaikovsky.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Caffeine thought the name "Friedrich" was mispronounced with a hard "ch" on this You Tube reading. It sounds softer to me but what do I know. Did you hear it? It's around 22 seconds into the video. Tell us what you think of the reader's pronunciation:
You Tube reading of The Communist Manifesto Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined:
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Your book is not evidence of anything except the fact that a nutjob wrote a book and some people actually believe that foolish material in it. Fortunately most Satanists have a better chance of making it to heaven than most Christians. BUT...nothing your nutjob guy wrote has anything to do with Marxism in today's Leftism. This kind of rude abusive attitude makes me often regret ever posting anything here. Pastor Wurmbrand was no "nutjob." He's a well respected Christian pastor who was tortured and imprisoned in Romania under Ceausescu for fourteen years for his faith, three of them in a cell deep underground, and wrote many inspiring books.
Wikipedia on Richard Wurmbrand: Richard Wurmbrand (March 24, 1909 — February 17, 2001) was a Romanian Christian minister of Jewish descent. In 1948, having become a Christian 10 years before, he dared to publicly say that Communism and Christianity were not compatible. As a result, he experienced imprisonment and torture by the then Communist regime of Romania, for his beliefs. After serving five years (1959-1964) of a second prison sentence, he was ransomed for $10,000. His colleagues in Romania urged him to leave the country and work for religious freedom from a location less personally dangerous. After spending time in Norway and England, he and his wife Sabina, who had also been imprisoned, emigrated to America and dedicated the rest of their lives to publicizing and helping Christians who are persecuted for their beliefs. He wrote more than 18 books, the most widely known being Tortured for Christ. Variations of his works have been translated into more than 60 languages. He founded the international organization Voice of the Martyrs, which continues to aid Christians around the world who are persecuted for their faith. The idea that Satanists would go to heaven before Christians is also indefensible. Satanists wouldn't want to be in heaven since they hate God and wouldn't want to be in His presence, or anywhere His will is obeyed, or anywhere sin isn't committed. Believe whatever you want about me, but you are very wrong about the other two points. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Riggamortis Member (Idle past 2391 days) Posts: 167 From: Australia Joined: |
Satanism appears to be humanists making fun of organised religion and little more, judging by its tenets.
quote:
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