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Author Topic:   Who can be saved? A Christian perspective
Phat
Member
Posts: 9500
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 451 of 457 (813102)
06-23-2017 8:08 AM


Back On Topic! Salvation NOT evolution
The topic is about salvation...not evolution.

jar writes:

MHO, as a Christian, anyone can be saved whether or not they acknowledge or profess a belief in Jesus or even GOD. In fact, even if they deny the existence of GOD they can and will likely be saved.
So to others out there, whether you are Christian, one of the other Judaic faiths, agnostic or even atheist, what do you think? Who can be saved and how do you support your position?

ramoss writes:

From a Jewish perspective, the concept of Salvation is for this world, not the next one, so the Christian concept of 'being saved' is absent and unneeded.
From an atheistic point of view, it is a load of superstition, based on belief in an imaginary friend.


jar then offers support for Matthew 25 and his belief that salvation is based upon what we DO rather than WHO we believe in:
jar writes:

if GOD reached out to the Jews directly, the Gentiles through Jesus, why couldn't GOD reach out to the Muslims through Mohamud, Asians through Confucious, Buddha and Mencius and Mormons through Joseph Smith.
Look at Matthew 25. Where does it show any requirement for profession of Jesus, knowledge of Jesus, belief in Jesus or even an intent to acknowledge Jesus? In fact, where does it show a requirement to profess GOD, acknowledge GOD, worship GOD or even an intent to Love GOD?
Matthew 25 is very clear. No interpretation is needed. It says if you have done it for the least of these, you've done it for GOD. It does not say Christians are saved and all others damned. It says those that have loved GOD will be saved even if they never intended to do so.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29143
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 452 of 457 (813112)
06-23-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 451 by Phat
06-23-2017 8:08 AM


Re: Back On Topic! Salvation NOT evolution
There are many other such passages, Luke 4 as an example:

Luke 4 writes:

24 And he said, Verily I say unto you, No prophet is accepted in his own country.

25 But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land;

26 But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a woman that was a widow.

27 And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian.

28 And all they in the synagogue, when they heard these things, were filled with wrath,

Which angered his listeners just as telling Christians today that they are not special or chosen over the Muslims and Atheists and Agnostics and Buddhists and Hindus and Satanists and animists angers the Christians.

and Luke six:

Luke 6 writes:

45 A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and doeth them, I will shew you to whom he is like:

48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.

49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.

that repeats the admonition that it is behavior not belief that is of significance.

Much that the stories claim Jesus said is not reflected in many Christian churches.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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NoNukes
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Posts: 9734
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 453 of 457 (813164)
06-23-2017 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by Boof
06-22-2017 11:07 PM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
So using your super sleuthing geology skills how do you identify which granite intrusions are Mesoproterozoic and which are not?
....

Which is why major multinational mining companies spend money on radiometric dating, and indeed often keep the results confidential to give themselves a competitive advantage.

Nice point. I may have asked this question before, but how is it that you have only 96 posts? This one was a gem and I would like to see more.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Boof, posted 06-22-2017 11:07 PM Boof has not yet responded

    
Faith
Member
Posts: 25606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 454 of 457 (813203)
06-24-2017 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 449 by Boof
06-22-2017 11:07 PM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
I'm aware that since the timing in Old Earth theory is believed, that dating methods are actually used for such purposes. You at least give a reasonable justification for that, saying there is no other way to tell where the copper is located, but I'm afraid that doesn't do it for me. I don't know what sort of evidence might be mustered in this case, but your statement alone isn't enough.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by Boof, posted 06-22-2017 11:07 PM Boof has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 455 by Boof, posted 06-25-2017 10:18 PM Faith has responded

    
Boof
Member
Posts: 97
From: Australia
Joined: 08-02-2010


(1)
Message 455 of 457 (813300)
06-25-2017 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by Faith
06-24-2017 10:01 AM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
... but I'm afraid that doesn't do it for me. I don't know what sort of evidence might be mustered in this case, but your statement alone isn't enough.

Well that's easy to answer - no scientific evidence will ever be enough for you Faith. Even when the evidence against your views becomes overwhelming your response is to say that you can't explain why but you know that it's wrong.

But I'm not looking for any 'Eureka moment' from you, I just want you (and other creationists) to stop saying ridiculous things like:

True science is useful, but there is nothing whatever about the vaporings about the distant past, either the biological past or the geological past, that is useful at all....

Seem fair?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 454 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 10:01 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 25606
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 456 of 457 (813307)
06-26-2017 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 455 by Boof
06-25-2017 10:18 PM


Re: Side trip on the usefulness of the ToE and OE
Of course not. I asked you for evidence, where is it?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 455 by Boof, posted 06-25-2017 10:18 PM Boof has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 9500
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 457 of 457 (813308)
06-26-2017 1:37 AM


Get Back To The Topic
Would everyone please stop this off topic discussion?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

  
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