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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 196 of 381 (813332)
06-26-2017 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by jar
06-25-2017 8:03 AM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
There is no class hatred in Marxism. That is another lie that is marketed by your source.
Of course there's class hatred in Marxism. The very foundations of Marxism are based on the fact that an antagonism of interests between two classes is the most important aspect of modern society, and that the road to true freedom and progress lies in the fight against the bourgeoisie and the ultimate abolition of their class and all it stands for.
Now, you can say that this is simply a rational analysis of class relations and has nothing to do with class hatred. But if you did we'd take you as seriously as those who rant about the dangers of Islam and then claim they're just doing calm analysis rather than being Islamophobic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by jar, posted 06-25-2017 8:03 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
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caffeine
Member (Idle past 1024 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 197 of 381 (813333)
06-26-2017 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Faith
06-25-2017 9:27 PM


Re: Chapter One: Communist Manifesto
Caffeine thought the name "Friedrich" was mispronounced with a hard "ch" on this You Tube reading. It sounds softer to me but what do I know. Did you hear it? It's around 22 seconds into the video. Tell us what you think of the reader's pronunciation:
Bit of misunderstanding. I thought it should be pronounced with a hard 'ch', but apparently the guy on Youtube knows German orthography better than me.

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 Message 178 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 9:27 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 198 of 381 (813334)
06-26-2017 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by ringo
06-26-2017 11:56 AM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
Communism has also been "confused with" the Khmer Rouge and Maoism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by ringo, posted 06-26-2017 11:56 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 199 of 381 (813335)
06-26-2017 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by caffeine
06-26-2017 2:16 PM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
I think that's a false analysis and that Marxism creates class hatred. Certainly is doing so in the US these days. They are reinventing racism in America for which there is little continuing rational basis. The whole politically correct arsenal is intended to keep racism alive. Now of course it's mostly anti-white racism. And of course like a Marxist you refuse to see the problem with Islam and accuse those who do of Islamophobia.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 200 of 381 (813336)
06-26-2017 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by caffeine
06-26-2017 2:08 PM


Re: Violence inherent in Marxism itself
I believe Wurmbrand made the case well that those who wrote Satanist poetry DID believe in Satan.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 201 of 381 (813338)
06-26-2017 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by caffeine
06-26-2017 2:16 PM


Re: Main interest in killing God?
caffeine writes:
The very foundations of Marxism are based on the fact that an antagonism of interests between two classes is the most important aspect of modern society, and that the road to true freedom and progress lies in the fight against the bourgeoisie and the ultimate abolition of their class and all it stands for.
I still don't see class hatred there. Yes, Marxism does build on the existing (and at the time very real) class struggle and the antagonism between the two. Yes, it does propose a transfer of power from one group to the other but the topic is "An Exploration of Marxism in today's Leftism" and there is no similar demands today for abolition of any class and if you read Trotsky (who really was a Marxist) it is quite clear that the demands of the time were meant to apply to a specific time and era.
So where is the evidence for any Marxism in today's Leftism?
caffeine writes:
Now, you can say that this is simply a rational analysis of class relations and has nothing to do with class hatred. But if you did we'd take you as seriously as those who rant about the dangers of Islam and then claim they're just doing calm analysis rather than being Islamophobic.
And that too is fine. But it would make you seem really silly.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 202 of 381 (813357)
06-26-2017 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
06-26-2017 10:46 AM


Re: What Marxism means
quote:
I wasn't really able to deal with your post because it focuses on economics which is not really what I'm trying to get at. My concern is what could be called Marxism's "critique" of culture, which is really the dismantling of culture, a destructive attack on culture.
So you wanted to examine the effects of a socioeconomic theory on modern leftism without looking at economics? Seems a bit odd. Or deliberate because looking at the real economic motivations would destroy your postition that it has anything to do with satanism.
I'm sure you'll agree there are elements of Islamic culture that should be dismantled, I put it to you that there are elements of western culture that are socially destructive and should also be dismantled. Further, that it is only your bias that prevents you from seeing and accepting this.
quote:
Such a frame of mind would certainly have influenced such a document as The Communist Manifesto although of course the influence would not have been overtly expressed.
My views on social and economic issues have nothing to do with my views on god except where those who believe in god insist on inserting him into such issues.
quote:
If your desire is to ruin the world, as Marx is quoted to have said at one point, if you hate most of the human race, which I've also quoted of Marx but also Engels (including hatred of Jews, Slavs, Russians, blacks and British among others, including the proletariat whose wellbeing they were supposedly championing), if you think Satan represents everything good and God represents everything bad, (if you think love of neighbor and enemy is bad but getting revenge is good) then how could the theory they developed be anything but satanic?
I don't hate the human race, I hate the system we have imposed on ourselves. I can't see how the system we have could ever have been envisioned to be good for the majority and therefore I am pissed at the 'elite'.
Unless Marx and Engels views are present in modern leftism, I don't know what your point is. I've never seen a modern leftist express a desire to abolish private property, so I can't even see Marxism in modern leftism, let alone those other views.
Since you seem to think that communism is fundamentally incompatible with Christian values, I'll argue that it is more compatible with core Christian teachings than capitalism. The core Christian values I'll be using are the 10 commandments and words of Jesus.
Love thy neighbour-
Capitalism, pits neighbour against neighbour and enemy alike in competition for an artificially scarce resource(money).
Communism, expects people to give up private property so that the earths resources can be used to the benefit of all as opposed to the few.
Thou shall not steal-
Capitalism, creates classes defined by how much private property they have accumulated. The poor envy the wealthy and the motivation for theft is born.
Communism, in the absence of private property and materially separated classes, theft is obsolete.
No other gods before me-
Capitalism, deifies money and it's accumulation.
Communism, has no gods.
Thou shall not murder-
Capitalism, capitalist states use their militaries to exert political and economic control. In effect, murder in the name of greed.
Communism, calls for the deaths of those who refuse to bend to the will of the people. There's no reason a communist revolution couldn't be peaceful, however.
Running out of lunch break so I'll leave it there..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 10:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 6:35 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 203 of 381 (813393)
06-27-2017 6:35 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by Riggamortis
06-26-2017 10:59 PM


Re: What Marxism means
You know so little about what has been argued on this thread I don't know where to begin to answer your post. Did you even read the OP? Any of the quotes from the book Marx and Satan? May I suggest that you at least listen to the video in Message 185?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by Riggamortis, posted 06-26-2017 10:59 PM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 204 of 381 (813396)
06-27-2017 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
06-27-2017 6:35 AM


Re: What Marxism means
I know you're paranoid about the evil leftists and their gay agenda and so on and so forth. It bores me. I'm supposing you're right and arguing that communism is more compatible with Christian values than capitalism anyway. Now it's your turn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 6:35 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 205 of 381 (813406)
06-27-2017 8:41 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Riggamortis
06-27-2017 7:36 AM


Re: What Marxism means
Riggamortis writes:
I'm supposing you're right and arguing that communism is more compatible with Christian values than capitalism anyway.
Jesus was certainly a Communist but not a Marxist.
But Faith has still failed to show any Marxism in today's Leftism (whatever that is).

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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 Message 204 by Riggamortis, posted 06-27-2017 7:36 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 411 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 206 of 381 (813418)
06-27-2017 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
06-26-2017 2:21 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
Faith writes:
Communism has also been "confused with" the Khmer Rouge and Maoism.
Correct. Just like you confuse communism with Satanism and "Leftism". Sometimes people use a label like "communist" or "Christian" when it isn't warranted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 2:21 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 207 of 381 (813419)
06-27-2017 11:46 AM


Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
A history of the Frankfurt School in America, Cultural Marxism, Critical Theory. How to destroy culture. .
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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 Message 209 by Riggamortis, posted 06-27-2017 10:22 PM Faith has replied

  
Chiroptera
Inactive Member


Message 208 of 381 (813457)
06-27-2017 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
06-27-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
I have to ask:
Can anyone identify the painting and artist in the pre-click video link? If I were to watch the video, would it tell me?
Added by edit:
I found it. It's by Edvard Munch. The painting is Madonna.
Sorry for the off-topic, but the style was so familiar and it was a case of the name of the artist being on the tip of my tongue. Annoying me to no end, it was.
Edited by Chiroptera, : No reason given.

Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all. — Billy Bragg

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 11:46 AM Faith has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 209 of 381 (813475)
06-27-2017 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
06-27-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
I can't watch a video as openly biased as that. I get your position Faith. You believe that the evil uni-educated lefties are using political correctness as a tool in their Marxist agenda. You believe that the left is destroying everything good and the right are our saviours. I am not so naive. Neither the left or the right in any country is properly addressing the real issues of our time. This leads me to conclude that neither side is the answer. Since I see the 1% all golfing and partying together whether they're left or right and both sides pandering to the wealthy, I find it more plausible that they are all working together. Using the left/right paradigm the 99% are split into two groups of 49.5%. This allows the one party state to masquerade as a two party state. We the people have the illusion of choice and control but it's the 'powers that be' pulling the strings behind the scenes no matter who we vote for.
Now I can't be sure that there is an active and sinister conspiracy going on, perhaps the observed evidence is simply the result of allowing greed and vested interests to direct public policy. I am sure that both sides are screwing us over though and at least my 'theory' explains all the observations. Your view is clearly based on your own biases rather than an honest look at the situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 11:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 10:29 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 210 of 381 (813477)
06-27-2017 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Riggamortis
06-27-2017 10:22 PM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
I haven't said anything in favor of the Right and I have my own complaints on the level of politics.
What I'm getting at here is the ideology of the Left, specifically the Frankfurt School who did have a tremendous influence on the generation of the sixties and whose ideas are now embedded in the culture. You keep addressing something in your own mind rather than what I'm actually presenting here. This most recent video is highly biased, I agree, so the one in Message 185 might be easier to watch, it's shorter and more focused on the ideology itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Riggamortis, posted 06-27-2017 10:22 PM Riggamortis has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by Riggamortis, posted 06-28-2017 5:10 AM Faith has replied

  
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