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Author Topic:   Jews Rejected God's Offer
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3033
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 211 of 219 (167151)
12-11-2004 10:18 AM
Reply to: Message 208 by dpardo
12-10-2004 2:03 PM


Re: Another look
Well, I will just write a brief synopsis.

According to Matthew, Jesus was born in the reign of Herod the King. Herod is supposedly to order all the kids born in
that timeframe to be killed (Oh. btw, the Gospel of Matthew is the only source
for this accustation, no other source for this story exists). Herod the King died in 4 B.C.E.

According to Luke, Jesus was born during the census that happened when
Quintarsis first became govenor of Syria. Judeah first became part of the providence of Syria in the same year. That year was 6. C.E. Before that time, Juddah was supposedly an independant kingdon, and Rome did not have the authority to conduct a census.

So, which year was Jesus born? During the reign of Herod the king< or when Judah had a census when it first became part of the providence of Syria? There is a 10 year historical gap in there.

This message has been edited by ramoss, 12-11-2004 10:27 AM

This message has been edited by ramoss, 12-11-2004 10:30 AM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by dpardo, posted 12-10-2004 2:03 PM dpardo has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by lfen, posted 12-11-2004 12:25 PM ramoss has responded
 Message 213 by lfen, posted 12-11-2004 12:27 PM ramoss has not yet responded

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 2177 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 212 of 219 (167166)
12-11-2004 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ramoss
12-11-2004 10:18 AM


Re: Another look
Ramoss,

Have you read any apologetic attempts at explaining that 10 year gap away? I'm wondering what the general approaches are? I'd guess to fuss with the datings.

lfen


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ramoss, posted 12-11-2004 10:18 AM ramoss has responded

Replies to this message:
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lfen
Member (Idle past 2177 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 213 of 219 (167168)
12-11-2004 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 211 by ramoss
12-11-2004 10:18 AM


Re: Another look
duplicate post.

lfen

This message has been edited by lfen, 12-11-2004 12:28 PM


This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by ramoss, posted 12-11-2004 10:18 AM ramoss has not yet responded

  
ramoss
Member
Posts: 3033
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 214 of 219 (167337)
12-12-2004 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by lfen
12-11-2004 12:25 PM


Re: Another look
Well, the basic one is to say that Quintiliuswas actuallygovenor to Syria twice, (Based on a tablet that mentioned a mentioned someone that MIGHT fit into a govenor of syria, but whose name has been destroyed.).

However, there is no evidence that Quintilius was actually govenor of Syria twice, nor would the Roman empire have the authority to ask for a census in Judah before 6 C.E. So, as I said, I have seen no apologist 'explaination' that makes any kind of sense. It is enough that many latch on to the non-explaination to save their face for them.

Why , they even bring out the idea of someone coin that alledgedly has
information in micro-engraving on the coins edge to 'prove' that. However, there are no pictures of the coin, just the person who alledgely found it's hand drawing of it!

A summery of the various attmempts can be found at the Christian appologist web site by Glenn Morton at http://www.christian-thinktank.com/quirinius.html

I found the explainations extremely bad, and ignoring basic facts.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by lfen, posted 12-11-2004 12:25 PM lfen has not yet responded

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 957 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 215 of 219 (167716)
12-13-2004 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by purpledawn
12-06-2004 11:02 AM


No Ultimatum Given to the Jews!
With less than 100 posts left, I still have not been shown an "offer" that would disown the Jewish people because everyone or their leaders did not repent and/or did not believe that Jesus was the messiah.

As shown in Message 197 I found no evidence that even those who did repent, changed from the normal Jewish practices. The fact that around 80-90AD the Jews had to add the 12th petition to discern who were Nazarenes, shows they were not obvious by their worship practices.

Tentative Conclusion: After they received the Holy Spirit, the apostles did, according to the author, reveal that Jesus was the messiah after his death, they did teach that the prophets spoke of Jesus and what he was to endure, they did not appear confused as to the message they were supposed to spread, and the apostles still preached the message of repent and be baptized. They also continued their practice of temple Judaism.


A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by purpledawn, posted 12-06-2004 11:02 AM purpledawn has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9594
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 216 of 219 (812685)
06-19-2017 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by jar
11-23-2004 2:37 PM


Re: Can you walk awhile with an old man?
jar writes:

GOD made a pact with the Jews.

GOD made a pact with the Christians.

They are not related in any way.

What was GODs specific pact with Christians?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by jar, posted 11-23-2004 2:37 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 06-19-2017 3:20 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29187
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 217 of 219 (812694)
06-19-2017 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
06-19-2017 1:16 PM


Re: Can you walk awhile with an old man?
Phat writes:

What was GODs specific pact with Christians?

I don't know of any pact between God and Christians.

My point is that a pact between God and Jews is not transferable to Christians.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 06-19-2017 1:16 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Phat, posted 06-26-2017 9:45 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 9594
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 218 of 219 (813351)
06-26-2017 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by jar
06-19-2017 3:20 PM


Re: Can you walk awhile with an old man?
I guess our old member PD showed this.
PD writes:

So Jesus gave Paul the authority to bring the name of Jesus before the Gentiles etc.

Not quite the same as speaking for God and declaring Judaism obsolete.

OK, so Paul said that the Jews refused Jesus...We have discussed your belief that Paul was trying to create a new religion. The Dispensationalists say that God reveals more of Himself through scripture in time.

Stam writes:

, God has revealed truth to man, not all at once, but a little at a time, historically. Noah knew more of God's revelation than Adam, Abraham than Noah, Moses than Abraham, the twelve than Moses, Paul than the twelve.

Of course, you will then resort to your belief that the Bible was written by man and that humans made up all of this! I like the idea that God has revealed a bit more of Himself to each generation throughout History. Comments?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by jar, posted 06-19-2017 3:20 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by jar, posted 06-27-2017 8:38 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 29187
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 219 of 219 (813405)
06-27-2017 8:38 AM
Reply to: Message 218 by Phat
06-26-2017 9:45 PM


Re: Can you walk awhile with an old man?
Phat writes:

Of course, you will then resort to your belief that the Bible was written by man and that humans made up all of this! I like the idea that God has revealed a bit more of Himself to each generation throughout History. Comments?

Not quite. I will resort to the actual evidence instead of my belief and let the conclusion be determined by the evidence not what I like.

The whole "the Jews rejected God's offer" gambit only makes the God character small and picayune; petty and mean.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Phat, posted 06-26-2017 9:45 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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