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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 137 of 381 (813239)
06-24-2017 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Faith
06-24-2017 8:29 PM


Re: the Tenets of Satanism
So what do Karl's views on theology really have to do with the idea that the majority of people should be organised enough to leverage their power over the wealthy few?
quote:
He exclaims,
Come, Satan, slandered by the small and by kings. God is stupidity and cowardice; God is hypocrisy and falsehood; God is tyranny and poverty; God is evil. Where humanity bows before an altar, humanity, the slave of kings and priests, will be condemned.... I swear, God, with my hand stretched out towards the heavens, that you are nothing more than the executioner of my reason, the sceptre of my conscience.... God is essentially anticivilized, antiliberal, antihuman.
Sounds about right to me, ignorance is holding us back as a species. Money is what money does and should be created with the good of all in mind, as opposed to the current system of money creation by credit. Allowing banks to create the vast majority of our money from thin air and lend it to us at interest is essentially a private tax for access to our supposedly sovereign currency.
Sustainablilty should be a priority for sustainabilities sake. Unsustainable = can't last.
Necessary industry like energy, currency, water, food and housing should all be run on a cost recovery model as opposed to for profit. One mans profit is another mans loss so we have a society that fundamentally screws some people over so that other may have more than enough.
These three things require at least 'capitalism light' which is the name I have given to a model that runs essential goods and services at cost price and allows the profit motive to drive non-essential industry. Are you actually able to argue against any of this or is it just 'I don't like commies cos I've been indoctrinated to hate them with a passion?'
Edited by Riggamortis, : Typo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 8:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 9:54 PM Riggamortis has not replied
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 10:01 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 140 of 381 (813242)
06-24-2017 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Faith
06-24-2017 10:01 PM


Re: Marxism is no solution to human problems
quote:
Well, for starters that's a false and destructive analysis of the problems that can only make things worse.
It supposes that the wealthy few are leveraging their wealth against the interests of the many and therefore calls for the many to leverage their number against the few.
The wealthy are so blatantly manipulating our democracies that I cannot fathom how you think it's a 'false and destructive analysis'. It would help if you'd argue it, rather than just assert it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 10:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 10:36 PM Riggamortis has not replied
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 11:04 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(3)
Message 165 of 381 (813273)
06-25-2017 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 142 by Faith
06-24-2017 11:04 PM


Re: Marxism is no solution to human problems
quote:
There's some really silly idea that the wealth possessed by the wealthy deprives others of wealth, as if there's some finite amount to go around. But wealth is created by enterprise, it grows, it isn't static. Until you start taking it away from people and giving it to others. THEN you produce poverty.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/...rticle/pii/S1057521914001070
This study establishes for the first time empirically that banks individually create money out of nothing. The money supply is created as ‘fairy dust’ produced by the banks individually, "out of thin air".
It's not some silly idea Faith. Our money supply is created as credit, by banks. Anyone who repays his own debt and has a surplus is therefore leaving someone else in deficit. New money can be created to fill the gap but this is only kicking the can down the road. The banking system works in the opposite way of the tax system. The tax system takes (mostly) from the wealthy to redistribute to the poor. The banks take interest from 99% of people and give it to the 1%. Without the latter, perhaps the former would be nearly obsolete..
quote:
What would it entail for "the many to leverage their number against the few?" Exactly what does that mean in practical reality?
Exactly what it says on the tin. Democrats and republicans are both bought and paid for by the corporations and their lobbyists. They get away with it because too many people play the same Dem/Rep game. Leveraging our number means uniting under a banner of common goals, such as implementing 'capitalism light'. If the people stop bickering between themselves and make their demands united, no amount of lobbying or money can stop them.
quote:
And exactly how are the wealthy few "blatantly manipulating our democracies?"
This question really boggles the mind in this day and age. Lobbying with big money is legalised bribery. Capitalists aren't donating to politicians, they're investing in them and they expect a return. Do you actually need specific examples?
Aside from that you've got the propaganda of the msm manipulating public opinion on wars, the economy, terrorism, unemployment and so on.
Gerrymeandering by both sides to keep out competition, further reinforcing the idea that both sides are corrupt and care only about themselves.
The amount of foreign donations received by our pollies is outrageous, we're very nearly being run by Chinese billionaires. Again, I don't think the 'donors' have our interests at heart.
Is it your position that the wealthy deserve to do with their money what they like? Even manipulate the political process? Do not mistake my outrage at the way the world is being run by vested interests in broad daylight for envy of the wealthy. It is not that they are wealthy, it is that the systems we have in place are corrupted by them to the detriment of the many..
ABE - I am often referred to as a commie and a lefty but I don't really subscribe to any sort of dogma, perhaps humanism if you must label me. I found the communist manifesto to be a prediction, it didn't pan out. No need to base any modern policy on the musings of dead guys..
Edited by Riggamortis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Faith, posted 06-24-2017 11:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 9:40 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 180 of 381 (813302)
06-25-2017 10:52 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Faith
06-25-2017 9:38 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
Satanism appears to be humanists making fun of organised religion and little more, judging by its tenets.
quote:
One should strive to act with compassion and empathy towards all creatures in accordance with reason.
The struggle for justice is an ongoing and necessary pursuit that should prevail over laws and institutions.
One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
The freedoms of others should be respected, including the freedom to offend. To willfully and unjustly encroach upon the freedoms of another is to forgo your own.
Beliefs should conform to our best scientific understanding of the world. We should take care never to distort scientific facts to fit our beliefs.
People are fallible. If we make a mistake, we should do our best to rectify it and resolve any harm that may have been caused.
Every tenet is a guiding principle designed to inspire nobility in action and thought. The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 9:38 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 11:12 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 189 of 381 (813320)
06-26-2017 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
06-25-2017 11:12 PM


Re: Pastor Wurmbrand
This thread is an exploration of Marxism in today's leftism. I gave you my modern leftist view that blends elements of communism with capitalism. I don't know what any of this other drivel has to do with the main topic. Are you claiming that modern leftism is based on satanic practices that allegedly occurred 150 years ago? Or did you just want to rant about Marx being a satanist?
For arguments sake, Marx was an evil satanist. So what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 06-25-2017 11:12 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 10:46 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 190 of 381 (813321)
06-26-2017 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Faith
06-26-2017 7:37 AM


Wait, what?
quote:
Political Correctness is the term for the popular tool of intimidation used by the Cultural Marxist Left to enforce this program of destruction of everything good, consisting of the epithets racist, sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic and so on, intended to suppress all dissenting views.
I can't help but read this as "destroying everything good, like racism, sexism, homophobia etc" 😂

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 Message 185 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 7:37 AM Faith has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(1)
Message 202 of 381 (813357)
06-26-2017 10:59 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Faith
06-26-2017 10:46 AM


Re: What Marxism means
quote:
I wasn't really able to deal with your post because it focuses on economics which is not really what I'm trying to get at. My concern is what could be called Marxism's "critique" of culture, which is really the dismantling of culture, a destructive attack on culture.
So you wanted to examine the effects of a socioeconomic theory on modern leftism without looking at economics? Seems a bit odd. Or deliberate because looking at the real economic motivations would destroy your postition that it has anything to do with satanism.
I'm sure you'll agree there are elements of Islamic culture that should be dismantled, I put it to you that there are elements of western culture that are socially destructive and should also be dismantled. Further, that it is only your bias that prevents you from seeing and accepting this.
quote:
Such a frame of mind would certainly have influenced such a document as The Communist Manifesto although of course the influence would not have been overtly expressed.
My views on social and economic issues have nothing to do with my views on god except where those who believe in god insist on inserting him into such issues.
quote:
If your desire is to ruin the world, as Marx is quoted to have said at one point, if you hate most of the human race, which I've also quoted of Marx but also Engels (including hatred of Jews, Slavs, Russians, blacks and British among others, including the proletariat whose wellbeing they were supposedly championing), if you think Satan represents everything good and God represents everything bad, (if you think love of neighbor and enemy is bad but getting revenge is good) then how could the theory they developed be anything but satanic?
I don't hate the human race, I hate the system we have imposed on ourselves. I can't see how the system we have could ever have been envisioned to be good for the majority and therefore I am pissed at the 'elite'.
Unless Marx and Engels views are present in modern leftism, I don't know what your point is. I've never seen a modern leftist express a desire to abolish private property, so I can't even see Marxism in modern leftism, let alone those other views.
Since you seem to think that communism is fundamentally incompatible with Christian values, I'll argue that it is more compatible with core Christian teachings than capitalism. The core Christian values I'll be using are the 10 commandments and words of Jesus.
Love thy neighbour-
Capitalism, pits neighbour against neighbour and enemy alike in competition for an artificially scarce resource(money).
Communism, expects people to give up private property so that the earths resources can be used to the benefit of all as opposed to the few.
Thou shall not steal-
Capitalism, creates classes defined by how much private property they have accumulated. The poor envy the wealthy and the motivation for theft is born.
Communism, in the absence of private property and materially separated classes, theft is obsolete.
No other gods before me-
Capitalism, deifies money and it's accumulation.
Communism, has no gods.
Thou shall not murder-
Capitalism, capitalist states use their militaries to exert political and economic control. In effect, murder in the name of greed.
Communism, calls for the deaths of those who refuse to bend to the will of the people. There's no reason a communist revolution couldn't be peaceful, however.
Running out of lunch break so I'll leave it there..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by Faith, posted 06-26-2017 10:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 6:35 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 204 of 381 (813396)
06-27-2017 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Faith
06-27-2017 6:35 AM


Re: What Marxism means
I know you're paranoid about the evil leftists and their gay agenda and so on and so forth. It bores me. I'm supposing you're right and arguing that communism is more compatible with Christian values than capitalism anyway. Now it's your turn.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 6:35 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 205 by jar, posted 06-27-2017 8:41 AM Riggamortis has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 209 of 381 (813475)
06-27-2017 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
06-27-2017 11:46 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
I can't watch a video as openly biased as that. I get your position Faith. You believe that the evil uni-educated lefties are using political correctness as a tool in their Marxist agenda. You believe that the left is destroying everything good and the right are our saviours. I am not so naive. Neither the left or the right in any country is properly addressing the real issues of our time. This leads me to conclude that neither side is the answer. Since I see the 1% all golfing and partying together whether they're left or right and both sides pandering to the wealthy, I find it more plausible that they are all working together. Using the left/right paradigm the 99% are split into two groups of 49.5%. This allows the one party state to masquerade as a two party state. We the people have the illusion of choice and control but it's the 'powers that be' pulling the strings behind the scenes no matter who we vote for.
Now I can't be sure that there is an active and sinister conspiracy going on, perhaps the observed evidence is simply the result of allowing greed and vested interests to direct public policy. I am sure that both sides are screwing us over though and at least my 'theory' explains all the observations. Your view is clearly based on your own biases rather than an honest look at the situation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 11:46 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 10:29 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 211 of 381 (813495)
06-28-2017 5:10 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
06-27-2017 10:29 PM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
quote:
What I'm getting at here is the ideology of the Left, specifically the Frankfurt School who did have a tremendous influence on the generation of the sixties and whose ideas are now embedded in the culture.
I watched the video. The arguments it made were mostly about how the MSM portrays things. I see both sides of the MSM as corporate propaganda. They mislead the public by omission reagarding the financial system every day. That is why I'm saying that your paranoia of the 'left' is based on the fact that you've been reeled in by the 'right'. They're both still pushing the infinite growth model in spite of the fact that it isn't conducive to the long term survival of our species. It is destroying and polluting our planet. It will end in catastrophe.
I care about the world my son will inherit more so than the amount of money. I care about the world his children and their children will inherit. We need a democratic revolution and it needs to be at least somewhat socialist to be able to address sustainability as a priority. That is a fact any reasonable person ought to be able to deduce after some thought and an honest look at the situation.
quote:
You keep addressing something in your own mind rather than what I'm actually presenting here.
To be fair, you're not really presenting anything but Christian persecution complex and paranoia. I'm trying to talk some sense into you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 06-27-2017 10:29 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 06-28-2017 7:43 AM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(4)
Message 217 of 381 (813514)
06-28-2017 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Faith
06-28-2017 7:43 AM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
quote:
Human nature can distort anything. Don't blame bad economic policies on Capitalism when it's just people being people. If there's a battle to be fought, right the right one. Communism is the wrong one.
The human nature argument is nonsense. Humans are a social species and naturally cooperative. We have no need for competition, naturally, outside reproduction or a shortage of resources. We have the resources and things that need to be done but we don't have the money, cos capitalism. The system we have now rewards greed and therefore produces greedy people. It's not rocket science.
quote:
It was Destructive at least, hating America which I loved, destroying things for no good reason, making people hate each other, calling my family "Oppressors" -- my working class Democrat father? Yes that was implied in the evil stuff people were believing.
So people having opinions about white man having just spent the last 500 years raping and pillaging their way across the planet in the name of greed were destroying what exactly? Your little bubble of self righteous ignorance?
quote:
I suspect you've become convinced of a wrong theory, but in any case that's not the subject on this thread.
I'm not talking about climate change, if that's what you mean. Just sustainability and pollution in general.
quote:
I decide whether what someone else says is right or not, I decide it, they don't.
See that's your problem, the definitions of the words and reality decide if they're correct or not.
DO NOT TELL ME HOW I CAME TO MY OPINIONS
Those on the other hand who are convinced of the rightness of Cultural Marxism got it at university where professors made the case for it day after day until they ended up brainwashed.
1. Cultural Marxism is a made up term used to describe the social phenomena of people recognising and defending human rights.
2. I didn't go to university, so where does that leave you?
quote:
I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that you are one of those on the left who really cannot think, or you think with your emotions, and you're so convinced of your conclusions you'd be happy to force them on all the rest of us without the slightest warrant
Well I didn't go to uni and get brainwashed so I guess I must've thought a bit to come to my conclusions. I am quite confident I can defend them much better than you yours. I do have the advantage of not needing to reference magic sky daddies though. Or defend greed as the founding principle of society.
Sure I'd be HAPPY to force interest free credit on you and have you pay next to no tax because the government is using the power of money creation for the people. I'd be really happy to force all the jobs on everyone that would be created in the public sector. I'd be even more happy to force a sustainable future on my grandchildren. It simply isn't going to happen under this current system.
'Cultural Marxism' is basically some people observing others making minorites feel like shit and opening their mouths to make the offending party feel like shit. At the end of the day it only generates animosity. Both sides play the bleeding heart snowflake vs racist bigot game and we continue down the path of Einstein's definition of insanity..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Faith, posted 06-28-2017 7:43 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Faith, posted 06-28-2017 9:23 AM Riggamortis has not replied
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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(2)
Message 224 of 381 (813577)
06-28-2017 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 223 by Faith
06-28-2017 4:48 PM


Re: Cultural Marxism: The Architects of Western Decline
Not a joke, just didn't get it said as well as I should have. I certainly don't think they make a legitimate case which is what would make it a joke, they just teach it and preach it to their captive audience until it's accepted as truth
I've made a legitimate case for it from several angles on this very thread. You have stated that you're incapable of evaluating the economic arguments. You are therefore incapable of holding an informed opinion on the matter. Yet you hold not just an opinion on the matter, but knowledge, you know communism isn't the way. Pretty impressive for someone who can't even evaluate the arguments.
I think you've watched too much US propaganda. You don't think this is an educational video, do you?
https://youtu.be/fTs1w6M-sVM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by Faith, posted 06-28-2017 4:48 PM Faith has not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 303 of 381 (813812)
06-30-2017 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 299 by Faith
06-30-2017 4:33 PM


Re: Political Correctness is engineered class hatred
If I say that all fundies are crackpots and a danger to society and someone else interprets that as a justification for murder, that's on them. You seem to want to make a speech crime out of what the left say because of what might happen as a result. Ironically, crying persecution for that very thing in the same breath.
You are attacking political correctness because you perceive it to be a danger to society. The left assign all those labels to the right because they perceive their rhetoric to be a danger to society.
Racist rhetoric can cause unstable people to commit murder based on race. Under the exact same logic you are using to attack the left, they are justified in attacking the right. So round and round we go..

This message is a reply to:
 Message 299 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 4:33 PM Faith has seen this message but not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 305 of 381 (813815)
06-30-2017 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 302 by Faith
06-30-2017 9:39 PM


Re: The Jesuit Connection
The 'free' world are already debt slaves. Capitalism is just feudalism without the strict bloodline inheritance requirement, anyone can get rich just not everyone. The idea that socialism forces everyone to the lowest common denominator isn't true at all. The realisation that we are only limited by our ability to collect resources and create things plus the implementation of a socialist monetary system has the potential to really lift all boats. Whether or not there are forces in the world with malevolent agendas does not change this Faith, no matter how paranoid you are about 'Cultural Marxists'.
ABE: anyone who says that there's no such thing as racism against white people or sexism against men is delusional. I agree that there are people who say such things but they are not thinking rationally about what those words mean. Your whole rant is a strawman.
Edited by Riggamortis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 9:39 PM Faith has seen this message but not replied

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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2390 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


(2)
Message 312 of 381 (813886)
07-01-2017 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 308 by Faith
07-01-2017 9:08 AM


Re: capitalism
Capitalism doesn't have to be that insensitive, and with the right employers it's not.
Feudalism is great when you have good kings and lords too. Employers don't have to treat their employees poorly but it is a lot easier to accumulate capital if you keep costs down and treating employees well generally comes at a cost.
Capitalism is the best system for creating wealth and benefiting society in general, the more wealth created the more everybody benefits.
Did you steal that line from the propaganda video I posted? Capitalism in its current form is concentrating the wealth into fewer and fewer hands at an alarming rate. Your assertion is refuted by this fact alone.
Edited by Riggamortis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 308 by Faith, posted 07-01-2017 9:08 AM Faith has not replied

  
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