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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 291 of 381 (813778)
06-30-2017 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 290 by JonF
06-30-2017 12:33 PM


Re: Political Correctness again
That is not a fact, that's a lie.

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 Message 290 by JonF, posted 06-30-2017 12:33 PM JonF has replied

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 294 of 381 (813783)
06-30-2017 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 293 by JonF
06-30-2017 12:38 PM


Re: Political Correctness again
Leftist lie.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 299 of 381 (813797)
06-30-2017 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 298 by PaulK
06-30-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Political Correctness is engineered class hatred
Say what things? This topic is how PC accuses people of things that can get them killed under the right circumstances, that it's all about finding an enemy to blame for some kind of suffering of somebody else, how Marxism invents an Oppressor and an Oppressed and sets up the Oppressor for abuse, namecalling, intimidation and even murder. That's what it did in the Russian "revolution" and other Communist regimes. It's also what Hitler did. It's also what happened in Rwanda. The accusations are all made up but they have vicious consequences if the circumstances are right.
You say I denied this somewhere? I'm not going to check and if you don't want to clarify I don't care.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 302 of 381 (813811)
06-30-2017 9:39 PM


The Jesuit Connection
This comes from an ad for a two-CD discussion of the influence of Jesuitism on Marxism, by one of my favorite Christian teachers, Chris Pinto of Adullam Films.
The United States and many Western countries are currently afflicted by the plague of Marxism that openly threatens to topple the principles of liberty and enslave the free world.
I'm sure a Leftist can't possibly make any sense out of this. If they took it seriously, at least recognized that some people do take it very seriously, it might make them rethink some of their assumptions about Marxism. Or not. But I can't help wanting them to know that a lot of people think of Marxism this way. But this teaching is about the Jesuits' influence:
In 1881, Protestant historian J.A. Wylie warned that the Jesuit Order manipulated Communism against countries that refused to obey their liege lord, the Pope. The openly stated aim of the Order is to destroy Protestantism, in order to reclaim all the territories and power that the Vatican lost as a result of the Great Reformation. Could Marxism itself be the weapon of Rome’s Counter Reformation?
The relationship between the Jesuits and Communism is startling, even to this day. Karl Marx was educated at a secularized Jesuit school, while a host of world leaders including Fidel Castro and Bill Clinton were former students of the Order. Are the Jesuits the missing link to understanding the advancement of Marxist principles in the Western world today?
I'm looking forward to hearing this presentation. Marxism is evil enough without Jesuit influence though. But here are some of the topics this CD set is to cover:
1) The relationship between Karl Marx & the Jesuit Order in the 19th century.
2) Documentation from history that the Jesuits manipulate Communism as a weapon against countries they are trying to control.
3) Evidence that the expulsion of the Order from many countries across Europe was because of its radical associations with Marxism.
4) The testimony of Otto von Bismarck (the Protestant leader of Germany), who warned the world about Jesuit-Marxism in the newspapers of his day.
5) How the Jesuit Reductions of Paraguay were a model for the perfect Communist society.
6) Elements of the Paraguay indoctrination system present in modern education.
7) Friedrich Engels (co-author of the Communist Manifesto) and his teaching on the Peasant War in Germany.
8) How the ideas of Thomas Muntzer (radical leader of the Peasant War) were woven into Socialist/Communist thought.
9) The Reformers vs. Thomas Muntzer: exalting the glory of God vs. empowering the worldly lusts of mankind.
10) The relationship of Marxism to the principles of the Great Inquisition, and the concept of confiscating property from heretics.
11) The teachings of Thomas Aquinas: and his philosophy of justifiable theft.
12) The influence of Thomism on the doctrine of wealth redistribution.
13) Origins of Social Justice from a Jesuit priest named Luigi Taparelli.
14) Why the Jesuits removed God and the Church from the ancient Catholic system of wealth and property confiscation.
15) How Marxism openly violates the Tenth Commandment.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 304 of 381 (813813)
06-30-2017 10:15 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Tusko
06-30-2017 6:20 PM


Re: Political Correctness again
What I appreciate about you is your straightforward and polite attitude. SO rare at EvC.
But I don't recognize the video from your discussion. Is this the one in Message 185 you're talking about? I'll go listen again to see where your comments apply to it.
It is true that there are things that it touches on that leave me a bit disquieted. Certainly what is called "no-platforming" here in the UK, and I assume in the US too, leaves me a bit concerned.
I'm not familiar with that term and don't know what it means but it sounds like something I'd like to understand. Please explain.
ABE: I looked it up. Not giving a platform to a person or position considered ...dangerous? That could of course censor all kinds of views that people need to hear. But where is this in the video? /abe
I don't think exposure to dangerous ideas is necessarily a bad thing, and who gets to decide what a dangerous idea is anyway?
ABE: OK, after seeing what no-platforming means I get what you're saying better. Yes, I agree. /abe
As for who decides, I would hope there's enough objective evidence of such a danger for people to decide for themselves.
I've never understood the appeal of Marxism myself though, it seems to have a powerful appeal to some people, so if in fact it is dangerous how does one get through that effect to get anyone's attention?
But there are things in the video that also seem weak. For instance, is it really being argued that racial discrimination against minorities is not a problem now? That women being sexist is as big a problem as men? That prejudice against minority religions isn't a problem? At best these ideas seem naive, and at worst they just seem plain nasty.
Nobody's saying there's no racial discrimination any more, but Marxism exploits it in a way that magnifies it, exacerbates it, and fingers a group of people as responsible for it when it's endemic to the human race. Their idea that it's not possible to be racist against white people is sheer evil. In fact with their emphasis on the color of a person's skin it is THEY who are the racists and all they are doing is stirring up unnecessary hatred. America has come a long way in my opinion in putting institutional racism behind us. And institutional racism should be the focus, not individual attitudes, although I've felt there's a lot more human contact between the races too, more sympathy, more welcoming and sharing. But Marxism could undo all that. Marxism has to create enemies, that's the whole problem with their Oppressor-Oppressed formula. It's focused on people rather than ideas, ideologies, institutions etc. Making any group of people into the bad guys versus the good guys really is dangerous and unfair, and that IS how all the murders of Communism, and other ideologies like Nazism, were possible. If you are dealing with ideas you work to argue against those ideas, but dealing with people causes wars and murders. Racism should be treated as a matter of policies, not people, and dealt with on that level.
That women being sexist is as big a problem as men?
Again I object to the focus on people rather than on social policies and institutions.
That prejudice against minority religions isn't a problem?
The only religion discussed is Islam, right? Whatq you are calling a "prejudice" is really the opinions of people who are knowledgeable about Islam, no mere prejudice. I have characterized it as a totalitarian ideology, which it is. It aims to take the world for Allah, and killing "infidels" ("jihad") is actual written Islamic policy, and to ignore this, as so many do, is suicidal. Marxist/Leftist thinking treats it as a mere religion and its believers as one of those Victim classes, welcoming them into countries they hate and will never assimilate to. SOME DO, don't get me wrong, but they are renegades; true believers will not. And even those who assimilate often identify enough with Islam to be vulnerable to feeling they have to support the jihadis when pressed, because it IS a tenet of the religion. But in general, in this case too I object to focusing on the people, the Muslims themselves, because they have every shade of adherence to Islam, every shade of understanding and nonunderstanding, and a variety of different ways of interpreting it. But Islam itself, the doctrine itself, is a totalitarian ideology aimed at subjugating all nonMuslims, and that's what makes it dangerous, as dangerous as Marxism. Marxism too is a totalitarian ideology. It's important to realize that's what's dangerous, and its followers are its victims.
At best these ideas seem naive, and at worst they just seem plain nasty.
And that is how Marxism succeeds, because its focus is on personal attitudes which everybody abhors; but the problem, again, to my mind is pitting one group of people against another. Social policy is one thing, but making it a matter of personal conflict is diabolically evil. It is a dangerous IDEOLOGY, its followers are its victims.
Out of interest, do you think implicit bias is a problem, or is it just mumbo jumbo?
Not sure what you mean.
And although just a minor point, suggesting that one's opponents are sheep, afraid to stray from orthodoxy, while asserting what is an even more established orthodoxy, seems pretty self-defeating. Even putting the paradoxical element of that bit of silly sniping to one side, it is such a gross generalisation. Sure there are people who are afraid to stray from the party line in any group, but there are others who aren't. So what?
Don't recall this from the video.
[qs]
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 308 of 381 (813836)
07-01-2017 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by dwise1
06-30-2017 11:55 PM


capitalism
Capitalism doesn't have to be that insensitive, and with the right employers it's not. With the wrong employers you still have the legal system for the sake of the workers. But there have been some famous capitalists like the Guinness people, who go out of their way to take care of their workers. Capitalism is the best system for creating wealth and benefiting society in general, the more wealth created the more everybody benefits.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 313 of 381 (813891)
07-01-2017 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 301 by Tusko
06-30-2017 6:20 PM


Re: Political Correctness again
But there are things in the video that also seem weak. For instance, is it really being argued that racial discrimination against minorities is not a problem now? That women being sexist is as big a problem as men? That prejudice against minority religions isn't a problem? At best these ideas seem naive, and at worst they just seem plain nasty.
Another point about this. The Marxist emphasis isn't on defending the victim, it's on creating an enemy class. So anyone who objects to illegal immigration is called a racist because most of the immigrants are "brown skinned" even though the person's motive is entirely an objection to the illegality and not about race at all. Or anyone who objects to bringing in Muslim refugees without careful vetting is called a racist and "Islamophobic" although there are real dangers to the security of the nation from bringing them in.
This victim-class thing isn't about any real victims at all, it's about undermining a nation's law and security by inventing an enemy class, the "oppressors" and calling them racists to shut them up.
Or you're a "homophobe" if you abide by the Bible by insisting that homosexual acts are sin and by refusing to recognize "gay marriage," the point being to discredit and destroy the Bible. Undermining the culture in general. It's not about any kind of real harm done to homosexuals, the focus is really on the Bible believers, to deprive them of any role in the culture.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 315 of 381 (813894)
07-01-2017 11:19 PM
Reply to: Message 314 by Rrhain
07-01-2017 11:14 PM


Re: Political Correctness again
What exactly is the percentage of whites who stay here illegally as compared to the "brown" illegals who have crashed the country through our southern border? What is their rate of criminal activity too?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 319 of 381 (813902)
07-02-2017 1:32 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by dwise1
07-01-2017 11:48 PM


Re: capitalism
I'm not sure I'm against socialism in all its forms, but I'm certainly against Marxism for all the reasons I've been giving on this thread.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 320 of 381 (813903)
07-02-2017 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 318 by Rrhain
07-02-2017 12:50 AM


Re: capitalism
I have absolutely no opinion on the healthcare debate I'm afraid. I understand from the conservative point of view that Obamacare was too expensive for many people and mandated unnecessary coverage. I've HEARD that, but I don't keep up with the arguments. It sounds like not much progress is being made and I'm not sure who to trust about how it should be done. I'm pretty sure, however, there's no reason to trust the Democrats to do it right.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 321 of 381 (813904)
07-02-2017 1:46 AM
Reply to: Message 317 by Rrhain
07-02-2017 12:42 AM


Re: Political Correctness again
I am aware of some horrible crimes that have been committed by illegals, and the refusal to act to deport them by some supposed law enforcement officers.
I believe I've said that I think those who take advantage of cheap labor, which encourages the influx, should be prosecuted. Also the sanctuary cities.
Why do you protect them? Deport all illegals, white, brown, black or purple. They don't have a right to be here. But I'm not aware of the white illegals who came here legally; What I AM aware of is a great flood coming over our southern border and the mentality of the left that thinks that's just fine and calls it "immigration" leaving out the word illegal. Why are you objecting to my position, which is the rational one, when those who support this travesty are the guilty ones?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 324 of 381 (813909)
07-02-2017 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by Rrhain
07-02-2017 2:31 AM


Re: capitalism
I read a few sentences of your post. None of it is true. Not reading any more.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 327 of 381 (813920)
07-02-2017 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by dwise1
07-02-2017 5:53 AM


Re: capitalism
Totally socialist.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 329 of 381 (813922)
07-02-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 328 by JonF
07-02-2017 9:31 AM


Re: capitalism
Ignoring misrepresentations is easier on my physical and emotional health than making an issue of them.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 337 of 381 (814408)
07-09-2017 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by LamarkNewAge
07-08-2017 11:54 AM


Re: On the Islamic movements and Marxist influence theory. Ask right winger John Bolton
"Marxism is behind radical Islam?" Are you imputing that to me? I never said any such thing. You don't seem to understand much of what you read, at least of what I write. What I've been saying is that Marxism is the reason for the support of Islam as an "oppressed" group, the reason the media seem to avoid identifying Islam as the cause of a particular terrorist event, the reason it's hard to get anyone to accept that Islam is a dangerous ideology and the reason there is so much support for bringing in refuges as if there were no danger and so on. And call us "racists" and "Islamophobes" who keep sounding the alarm. All that originated with Cultural Marxism.;

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