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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1472 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Faith writes:
quote: This, of course, is completely belied by the targets of the attempts to curtail "illegal" immigration: It's always against the brown-skinned people rather than the more common light-skinned ones. Remember, the most common method of becoming an undocumented immigrant is to come to this country legally (tourist, student, worker, etc.) and then overstay one's visa. Please explain how a wall between the US and Mexico is going to stop this problem. Especially since there is a net negative immigration between the US and Mexico. As soon as you start complaining about the white illegals, we'll believe you that it's about them being illegal. As soon as you start complaining about the people who take advantage of those who are in this country illegally, we'll believe you that it's about them being illegal. But so long as you focus only on policies that only affect brown-skinned immigrants, we'll know that it isn't about them being "illegal" but rather because they aren't white. And are typically Catholic, in your case. Edited by Rrhain, : "Affect"...(*grumble*)Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Faith responds to me:
quote: You mean you don't know? You claim to be not focused on the race of those who are illegal and you haven't done your homework regarding undocumented immigrants? And you expect us to believe you when you say it isn't about race? Again, all the policies you endorse specifically target brown people. And you didn't answer my question: How does a wall between the US and Mexico stop people overstaying their entry visas? That's the most common way a person becomes an undocumented immigrant. There is a net negative migration. How is a wall supposed to have any effect upon this? And on a tangential note, when are you going to start focusing upon the people who exploit the undocumented? If there is no market for their labor, what would be their incentive to come here?
quote: You mean you don't know? Lower than those who are born here. But, you knew that. We've been through this before. The crime rate of immigrants, both legal and illegal, is much lower than the crime rate of those who are native. So once again, we see that your claim that you're only focused on their being "illegal" rather than their race is not exactly true. Again, the policies you endorse affect primarily those who are brown.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
dwise1 writes:
quote: It's akin to the current conservative, Christianist attempts to dismantle the healthcare system:
It seems that Faith has the same idea with regard to employment: You should rely on the charity of others when your employer screws you over...but heaven forbid we should organize a system such that this...oh, let's call it a "safety net"...is available for anybody at any time without having to go through the bother of setting it up from scratch every time.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined:
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Faith responds to me:
quote: Then you didn't read my post. I was using the destruction of healthcare as being carried out by Christianist conservatives to your attitudes toward employment as they are similar. You're OK with people helping out...but not if it's expected to help out...and not if the people being helped don't meet with your approval...and not if the way in which they are helped is not to your liking.
quote: And astoundingly less expensive for significantly more. It's why more than 30 million people now have insurance who didn't have it before and the uninsured rate is at its lowest ever. As for those who had financial problems, that could have been helped had the Christianist conservatives not sabotaged the funding mechanisms that would have provided assistance in paying premiums. Of course, this all could have been solved by a single-payer option the way most of the rest of the world does it. Medicare for All. Or is Medicare a bad thing?
quote: It's like you don't understand how insurance works. It seems that your definition of "unnecessary" means "I don't think I need it." F'rinstance, we have fools such as John Shimkus who, when asked about provisions in the ACA he had issue with, responded, "What about men having to purchase prenatal care?" Last time I checked, he was born of a woman. Ergo, he enjoyed the benefits of a woman having access to prenatal care and for him to question why it should be included shows he doesn't understand how healthcare works. But even so, that isn't how insurance works. We've been through this before: You don't pay for someone else's healthcare. You pay for your own. Your insurance may cover procedures that you never have, but that doesn't mean you're paying for it for someone else. Instead, you're paying for your own. After all, we hope you never need to submit a claim for chemotherapy to treat your cancer. And if you never do, that doesn't mean you wasted your money. Suppose you wanted to pay for all your healthcare yourself. Good luck. Chances are, you'll never be able to do so paying out of pocket. Before the ACA, the most common reason for bankruptcy in the US was medical expenses. And this included people who had insurance. There were caps on payouts and if you have a chronic condition, you can easily hit that limit. Very few people have a few million dollars just lying around. So you can invest your money. You can create a fund and every month, you might make a contribution to it. That way, you will have money set aside in case you have a bill. You can even invest that money so that it will grow and it will be able to cover more than just what you put in it. But it still won't be enough. It's hard enough to acquire enough money to retire on let alone pay for medical bills on top of that. So you can work with your friends and pool your resources. You can then leverage economies of scale and make better investments in order to get a bigger return. But now you have some questions about how to manage this fund. When it's just your money, you can determine what you will and won't use it for. There's nothing stopping you from raiding it to pay for the leaky roof or your kid's college tuition and thus taking the risk that you won't have enough to pay your medical bill. When there's someone else involved, you'll want to set up a schedule for what you will pay for out of that fund and not let it be raided for non-medical expenses. You'll then need to decide what to do if someone wants out. Do they get to take their "fair share" of the fund? This can easily lead to the collapse of the fund if enough people leave...especially if they do so as someone starts drawing on it. What to do? Congratulations, you just invented the insurance company: They have the fund. They set up a schedule of what can be filed as a claim. When you pay a premium, you aren't paying to have a tiny little pile of money for yourself. Instead, you're paying for access to the fund. When you leave, you don't get to take any money with you because you never had a pile of money to begin with. Instead, you were just buying membership to their club and when you stop paying, you're no longer a member. And that's how it works now: The government has established what minimum care is required to be covered by private insurance (which they have the right to do) because we have learned that to deny those services means that people end up going to the ER which is the most expensive way to deliver healthcare and cannot actually provide care for chronic conditions such as cancer, dementia, HIV, etc. And the ACA simply provided a way for you to buy into the private insurance market. So even taking Shimkus at face value, he isn't paying to have maternity care covered for someone that he thinks is undeserving of having maternity care. Instead, he's paying to have his own prostate exam covered. He doesn't have a pile of money all his own at the insurance company. He's paying for access to their fund and basic medical care necessitates maternity care. So please, do tell us what you mean by "unnecessary."
quote: And you seem to be very good at parroting talking points you don't understand.
quote: I can tell you who not to trust: Christianist conservatives. Those who say that the ACA is sinking under its own weight are lying to you.
quote: On the contrary: They're the only ones who can possibly do so. Medicare for All. Or do you think Medicare is bad?Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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Rrhain Member Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
Faith responds to me:
quote: So only a crime rate of 0 is sufficient? Faith, native-born people are twice as likely to commit crime, including violent crime, than immigrants, and that includes undocumented immigrants. So please explain how a wall is going to help.
quote: You've been lied to if that's what you think, Faith. Remember, Obama has deported more people than any other administration. Remember, there is a negative immigration across the Mexican border. Remember, crime is down, including violent crime, and has been going down for decades. So please explain how a wall is going to change things.
quote: You do realize that the latter is in direct contradiction to the former, yes? And you do realize that it is illegal to "prosecute" sanctuary cities, yes? It is illegal for the feds to force a state/city to carry out immigration policy (have your forgotten the Arizona case?) And thus (and this has already been decided in the courts), the feds cannot penalize a municipality for not engaging in immigration policy. So why are you seeking to penalize the victims of exploitation? Oh, that's right: They're brown.
quote: Because it's the "Christian" thing to do and monstrous to do otherwise.
quote: Again, how is a wall going to help? Remember, the most common way a person becomes an undocumented immigrant is by overstaying a legal visa. Why do your policies only target brown people?
quote: So? Why not provide them a means to earn that right? They provide a great deal of needed support for our society. Why do you seek to punish them for wanting to be Americans?
quote: And there we have it. You keep saying that it isn't about race, but then you say things like that. "WHITE"? What about the brown "illegals who came here legally"? Remember, the most common way in which a person becomes an undocumented immigrant is to overstay their legal entry. So why do you seem to think that the immigrants who come in here legally are white? And don't you think that your ignorance regarding the entirety of immigration in the US might have something to do with your ability to have an effective opinion?
quote: No, you're not. Instead, you've been lied to and you bought the lie. There is a NEGATIVE rate of immigration across the Mexican border. So the "great flood" you talk about literally does not exist. In fact, it's going the other way. Again, don't you think that your ignorance regarding immigration in the US might have something to do with your ability to have an effective opinion?
quote: Since what you claim to be aware of is quite literally a fiction, what does that have to say about this opinion of yours? Again, don't you think that your ignorance regarding immigration in the US might have something to do with your ability to have an effective opinion?
quote: Because a person is not "illegal." But since you insist, why don't you respond to my question? Why not provide them a means to earn that right? They provide a great deal of needed support for our society. Why do you seek to punish them for wanting to be Americans?
quote: Because it is racist. Because it is monstrous. Because it is unChristian.
quote: Because your foundation is quite literally a fiction. Ergo, how can it be "rational"? Again, what does that have to say about this opinion of yours? Again, don't you think that your ignorance regarding immigration in the US might have something to do with your ability to have an effective opinion? Exactly how is seeking to provide a way for these people to become citizens a "travesty"? Why not provide them a means to earn their citizenship? They provide a great deal of needed support for our society. Why do you seek to punish them for wanting to be Americans? Oh, that's right. They're brown.Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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