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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again

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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 4990 of 5179 (812827)
06-20-2017 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 4989 by Faith
06-20-2017 6:47 AM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
Faith writes:
Such statistics aren't really meaningful unless we know something about the circumstances.
There are no circumstances in which children being killed by guns is acceptable.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4989 by Faith, posted 06-20-2017 6:47 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4991 by Faith, posted 06-20-2017 1:58 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5000 of 5179 (812951)
06-21-2017 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 4991 by Faith
06-20-2017 1:58 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
Faith writes:
Of course I said nothing of the sort. Is that the best you can do?
Is that the best YOU can do? You mentioned "circumstances". What have "circumstances" got to do with it? It's the statistic that is appalling. What "circumstances" could make the statistic less appalling?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4991 by Faith, posted 06-20-2017 1:58 PM Faith has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5001 of 5179 (812952)
06-21-2017 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 4999 by Diomedes
06-21-2017 12:03 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
Diomedes writes:
guns in the hands of citizens should be defensive in nature.
A gun is not a defensive weapon. The idea that you can defend yourself with a gun is the problem, not the solution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4999 by Diomedes, posted 06-21-2017 12:03 PM Diomedes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5003 by Diomedes, posted 06-22-2017 2:07 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5008 of 5179 (813130)
06-23-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5003 by Diomedes
06-22-2017 2:07 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
Diomedes writes:
If a gun is used in response to an attack, it is being used in a defensive posture.
But more often than not, guns are not used in "response" to an attack; they're used in anticipation of an attack. If the other guy shoots first, a gun won't help you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5003 by Diomedes, posted 06-22-2017 2:07 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5011 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-01-2017 11:23 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5017 of 5179 (814005)
07-03-2017 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5011 by New Cat's Eye
07-01-2017 11:23 AM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:
ringo writes:
If the other guy shoots first, a gun won't help you.
We just had a republican congressman get shot by a Bernie supporter whose life was saved, and probably a mass tragedy prevented, by the defensive use of guns in response to an attack where the other guy shot first.
You make my point. The police officers fired after the attacker's gunfire. Their guns did not protect the congressman.
To be fair, they did protect other people who might have been shot.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5011 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-01-2017 11:23 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5018 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:00 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5019 of 5179 (814016)
07-03-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 5018 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 12:00 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:
They prevented his death, I call that "protecting".
They didn't prevent him from being shot in the first place.
New Cat's Eye writes:
Defensive Gun Use for the win.
If you follow the thread, I said in Message 5001 that, "The idea that you can defend yourself with a gun is the problem, not the solution."
YOURSELF.
I concede that you can defend somebody else with a gun - but only if you shoot him BEFORE he shoots you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5018 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:00 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5020 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:38 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5021 of 5179 (814021)
07-03-2017 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 5020 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 12:38 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:
Is your claim completely vacuous then?
My claim is that you can't defend yourself with a gun. If the congressman had been running the bases with an M-16, a Colt 1911 and an RPG, he would still have been shot because he never saw his assailant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5020 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:38 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5022 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:54 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5023 of 5179 (814028)
07-03-2017 1:02 PM
Reply to: Message 5022 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 12:54 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:
It's dumb to equate "defending yourself with a gun" with "never getting shot".
And I'm not doing that.
I'm saying that if you get shot, you get shot. Having a gun won't prevent that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5022 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 12:54 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5024 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 1:08 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5025 of 5179 (814034)
07-03-2017 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 5024 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 1:08 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
New Cat's Eye writes:
Sure, but being shot doesn't mean that you cannot defend yourself.
It means you didn't.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5024 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 1:08 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5026 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 2:52 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5027 of 5179 (814098)
07-04-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5026 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 2:52 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
Which doesn't mean that you cannot.
Sure it dt does. Being shot is not a successful defence. If you get shot, it's just dumb luck if you survive.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5026 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 2:52 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5028 by NoNukes, posted 07-04-2017 5:50 PM ringo has replied
 Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 2:56 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 5033 of 5179 (814275)
07-05-2017 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 2:56 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
What are you basing your odds on?
I didn't say anything about odds.
I'm saying that if you do get shot, you're lucky to survive.
And "Over 100 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend"? HOLY GOD DAMN MOTHER_FUCKING JESUS CHRIST!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 2:56 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 3:59 PM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5034 of 5179 (814276)
07-05-2017 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 5028 by NoNukes
07-04-2017 5:50 PM


NoNukes writes:
... you are also over-simplifying.
The gun nuts are over-simplifying when they think they can defend themselves with guns. I'm just simplifying the contrary position.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5028 by NoNukes, posted 07-04-2017 5:50 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5037 of 5179 (814284)
07-05-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 3:59 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:
Still, a >85% chance isn't all that lucky.
Lucky the bullet wasn't an inch to the left, lucky the ambulance got there quickly, etc. When 100 people are shot the number of fatalities can vary a lot.
Your best odds for survival is if you're not shot at all. The fewer nuts on the street "defending" themselves, the better your chances are.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 5047 of 5179 (821170)
10-03-2017 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 5041 by Tanypteryx
10-02-2017 2:37 PM


Re: Las Vegas
quote:
The Hearing Protection Act removes silencers from the Internal Revenue Code's definition of "firearms," which could ultimately make it easier for individuals to purchase them without the background checks required for firearm buyers. It further eliminates a $200 tax on the sound suppressors.
Um....
The Hearing Protection Act?
Seriously?
The Hearing Protection Act?
Silencers are for hearing protection?
Really?
Somebody had the unmitigated gall to introduce...? And they haven't been taken away in straight-jackets?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5041 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-02-2017 2:37 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5050 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-03-2017 2:59 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied
 Message 5054 by Modulous, posted 10-03-2017 5:18 PM ringo has replied
 Message 5057 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2017 11:04 AM ringo has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 5059 of 5179 (821256)
10-04-2017 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 5054 by Modulous
10-03-2017 5:18 PM


Re: silencers
Modulous writes:
Out of curiosity - what do you envisage them being used for?
They're used for sneaking around and shooting people in secret, so nobody hears you and comes after you. Duh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5054 by Modulous, posted 10-03-2017 5:18 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5061 by Modulous, posted 10-04-2017 3:39 PM ringo has replied

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