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Author | Topic: Gun Control Again | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
There are no circumstances in which children being killed by guns is acceptable.
Such statistics aren't really meaningful unless we know something about the circumstances.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Is that the best YOU can do? You mentioned "circumstances". What have "circumstances" got to do with it? It's the statistic that is appalling. What "circumstances" could make the statistic less appalling?
Of course I said nothing of the sort. Is that the best you can do?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Diomedes writes:
A gun is not a defensive weapon. The idea that you can defend yourself with a gun is the problem, not the solution.
guns in the hands of citizens should be defensive in nature.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Diomedes writes:
But more often than not, guns are not used in "response" to an attack; they're used in anticipation of an attack. If the other guy shoots first, a gun won't help you.
If a gun is used in response to an attack, it is being used in a defensive posture.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
You make my point. The police officers fired after the attacker's gunfire. Their guns did not protect the congressman. ringo writes:
We just had a republican congressman get shot by a Bernie supporter whose life was saved, and probably a mass tragedy prevented, by the defensive use of guns in response to an attack where the other guy shot first. If the other guy shoots first, a gun won't help you. To be fair, they did protect other people who might have been shot.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
They didn't prevent him from being shot in the first place.
They prevented his death, I call that "protecting". New Cat's Eye writes:
If you follow the thread, I said in Message 5001 that, "The idea that you can defend yourself with a gun is the problem, not the solution." Defensive Gun Use for the win. YOURSELF. I concede that you can defend somebody else with a gun - but only if you shoot him BEFORE he shoots you.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
My claim is that you can't defend yourself with a gun. If the congressman had been running the bases with an M-16, a Colt 1911 and an RPG, he would still have been shot because he never saw his assailant.
Is your claim completely vacuous then?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
And I'm not doing that. It's dumb to equate "defending yourself with a gun" with "never getting shot". I'm saying that if you get shot, you get shot. Having a gun won't prevent that.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
It means you didn't.
Sure, but being shot doesn't mean that you cannot defend yourself.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
Sure it dt does. Being shot is not a successful defence. If you get shot, it's just dumb luck if you survive.
Which doesn't mean that you cannot.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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New Cat's Eye writes:
I didn't say anything about odds. What are you basing your odds on? I'm saying that if you do get shot, you're lucky to survive. And "Over 100 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend"? HOLY GOD DAMN MOTHER_FUCKING JESUS CHRIST!!!
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
NoNukes writes:
The gun nuts are over-simplifying when they think they can defend themselves with guns. I'm just simplifying the contrary position.
... you are also over-simplifying.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
New Cat's Eye writes:
Lucky the bullet wasn't an inch to the left, lucky the ambulance got there quickly, etc. When 100 people are shot the number of fatalities can vary a lot. Still, a >85% chance isn't all that lucky. Your best odds for survival is if you're not shot at all. The fewer nuts on the street "defending" themselves, the better your chances are.
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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quote:Um.... The Hearing Protection Act? Seriously? The Hearing Protection Act? Silencers are for hearing protection? Really? Somebody had the unmitigated gall to introduce...? And they haven't been taken away in straight-jackets?
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ringo Member (Idle past 412 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Modulous writes:
They're used for sneaking around and shooting people in secret, so nobody hears you and comes after you. Duh.
Out of curiosity - what do you envisage them being used for?
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