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Author Topic:   Free will but how free really?
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 165 of 182 (814236)
07-05-2017 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Tangle
07-04-2017 9:03 AM


When people start challenging well known words it usually means they've got an axe to grind about them and prefer to use a definition they've just made up.
No, this is you copping out. Well known words can have multiple meanings and we're apparently using different ones and talking passed each other.
You have discovered a 'personal' religion. That is you now think you have a personal relationship with the god of your choosing and are pushing away from standard definitions.
I have a set of personal experiences and beliefs, just like everyone else. The word "religion" can be used to describe that set and that is how I have been using the word. It can also be used to describe the major religious organizations, which I am not particularly talking about.
I don't think that "religion" is a thing that can really get wiped out
Neither do I. It'll just fade away naturally.
I disagree. As I said, as long as weird shit is happening to people and they're relating to each other about it, there is going to be a thing called religion. I don't see that stopping.
Sure, mental illness will carry on, hopefully lessened by more grown up societies.
You can call it mental illness if you want to, but it's still religion. So is it going to carry on or is it going to fade away?
People don't go there for the beliefs, they're participating in a community.
That's not just wrong, it's also silly.
You're clueless.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Tangle, posted 07-04-2017 9:03 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 11:59 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 169 of 182 (814263)
07-05-2017 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by Tangle
07-05-2017 11:59 AM


you're also a member of a religious organisation.
Technically I'm not.
That's both the organisation and with it the experience.
You wrongly assume that the experiences are tied to the organization.
Without the perpetuation of the myth, the need to worship it fades away.
And yet, weird stuff will still happen to people and they will still relate to each other about it - so there will be religion. There's no needed perpetuation of a myth to keep it alive, and what I'm talking about has nothing to do with a need to worship.
If you haven't been told the myth you can't have the religious experience relating to it.
But you can still have unrelated spiritual experiences upon which to base your personal religious beliefs. I don't see that going away.
And people will naturally congregate, commune, and organize, so, yeah...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 11:59 AM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 2:04 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 171 of 182 (814268)
07-05-2017 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Tangle
07-05-2017 2:04 PM


Technically??
I'm not currently an active member of a parish.
Nothing is being dictated to me and I have no leaders.
I don't see much point in me playing pin-the-tail-on-the-donkey much longer, perhaps it's time you told us what this experience is, what brought it on, why it was so important to you and why it's nothing to do with organised religion.
I have been doing some of that in this thread, but here you go:
EvC Forum: Learning How to Pray After Finding God, from the perspective of a born again Catholic

This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 2:04 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 3:27 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 174 of 182 (814281)
07-05-2017 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Tangle
07-05-2017 3:27 PM


Well I read your thread and it turns out you're a Catholic, born-againish, Christian with some history of addiction and mental illness, possibly bipolar. All the stuff I hinted at.
Well it turns out that I'm not bipolar, so I got that going for me.
Look, it's not my intention to do you or your beliefs down, nor disparage the help you feel you've received from your new-found revelation but this is pretty classical stuff.
Yeah, classical stuff that continues to still happen to people despite participation in major religions declining.
But it has nothing to do with the general point that religions and their myths are declining because fairer, more balanced, more rational secular societies are replacing them.
And as I have been saying, that doesn't mean that people will stop being religious. They're just not claiming membership to the clubs anymore.
It's happening in secular societies too - people just aren't communing in person that much these days anymore. And it's to our own detriment - social media is just too shallow to replace good ol' fashioned community. People will start to figure it out and then they'll come together again. It may or may not have anything to do with religion, but religion is a good way to bring people together so I wouldn't be surprised.
But your whole dying out and going away mantra is misguided, imho.
No doubt individuals in crisis will always fall into the well of wishful thinking - our minds are complex things - but these people are the minority even in religious communities and they never find anything that is outside their previous religious knowledge.
That's two things that you do not know and I'm pretty sure you're just plain wrong about.
I wish you well with your recovery.
Thank you. My life has never been better.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 3:27 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 4:30 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 176 of 182 (814340)
07-07-2017 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Tangle
07-05-2017 4:30 PM


You say you have a science training and used to be rational. Has all that gone out of the window with this born-again stuff?
Nope.
I did stop taking an analytical/scientific approach to addressing my emotional needs, but only because it was failing me and I found a better way.
As long as it works, people will keep finding it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 4:30 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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