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EvC Forum Side Orders Coffee House Gun Control Again Summations Only
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Author Topic:   Gun Control Again
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5026 of 5179 (814038)
07-03-2017 2:52 PM
Reply to: Message 5025 by ringo
07-03-2017 1:14 PM


Which doesn't mean that you cannot.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5025 by ringo, posted 07-03-2017 1:14 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5027 of 5179 (814098)
07-04-2017 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 5026 by New Cat's Eye
07-03-2017 2:52 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:

Which doesn't mean that you cannot.


Sure it dt does. Being shot is not a successful defence. If you get shot, it's just dumb luck if you survive.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5026 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-03-2017 2:52 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5028 by NoNukes, posted 07-04-2017 5:50 PM ringo has responded
 Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 2:56 PM ringo has responded

NoNukes
Member
Posts: 10071
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 5028 of 5179 (814130)
07-04-2017 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 5027 by ringo
07-04-2017 11:40 AM


Sure it dt does. Being shot is not a successful defence. If you get shot, it's just dumb luck if you survive.

You have a point, but you are also over-simplifying. Not every situation is a one-on-one where the first shot ends the altercation. In fact, that's not what happens most of the time even with modern weapons. Once somebody starts shooting, particularly at a policeman, they may miss, or have a second or third policeman who can return fire.

So, no a gun is not as effective at defense as would be an impenetrable force field or a kevlar vest, but a gun can be a deterrent, and it can be used to lay down cover to pin down a shooter else even if you never hit the shooter. Guns do have some defensive value. Trying to make absolute statements to the contrary just makes you an extremist.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Astrophile
Member
Posts: 66
From: United Kingdom
Joined: 02-10-2014


Message 5029 of 5179 (814133)
07-04-2017 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5011 by New Cat's Eye
07-01-2017 11:23 AM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
We just had a republican congressman get shot by a Bernie supporter whose life was saved ... by the defensive use of guns

Whose life was saved? The republican congressman's or the Bernie supporter's?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5011 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-01-2017 11:23 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5031 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 10:37 AM Astrophile has responded

  
New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 5030 of 5179 (814237)
07-05-2017 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 5028 by NoNukes
07-04-2017 5:50 PM


Trying to make absolute statements to the contrary just makes you an extremist.

Well, he is a Canadian


This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(1)
Message 5031 of 5179 (814238)
07-05-2017 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 5029 by Astrophile
07-04-2017 8:30 PM


Re: Guns kill 1,300 US children every year, study finds
The congressman.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 5029 by Astrophile, posted 07-04-2017 8:30 PM Astrophile has responded

Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5032 of 5179 (814270)
07-05-2017 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5027 by ringo
07-04-2017 11:40 AM


If you get shot, it's just dumb luck if you survive.

Over 100 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend but only 15 of them died.
http://www.chicagotribune.com/...iolence-20170705-story.html

What are you basing your odds on?


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 5033 by ringo, posted 07-05-2017 3:21 PM New Cat's Eye has responded
 Message 5035 by Tangle, posted 07-05-2017 3:38 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 5033 of 5179 (814275)
07-05-2017 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 2:56 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:

What are you basing your odds on?


I didn't say anything about odds.

I'm saying that if you do get shot, you're lucky to survive.

And "Over 100 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend"? HOLY GOD DAMN MOTHER_FUCKING JESUS CHRIST!!!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 2:56 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 3:59 PM ringo has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5034 of 5179 (814276)
07-05-2017 3:24 PM
Reply to: Message 5028 by NoNukes
07-04-2017 5:50 PM


NoNukes writes:

... you are also over-simplifying.


The gun nuts are over-simplifying when they think they can defend themselves with guns. I'm just simplifying the contrary position.
This message is a reply to:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 5166
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 5035 of 5179 (814279)
07-05-2017 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 2:56 PM


NCE writes:

Over 100 people were shot in Chicago over the weekend but only 15 of them died.

You just normalised a holocaust


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5032 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 2:56 PM New Cat's Eye has acknowledged this reply

New Cat's Eye
Member
Posts: 11816
From: near St. Louis
Joined: 01-27-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 5036 of 5179 (814283)
07-05-2017 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 5033 by ringo
07-05-2017 3:21 PM


"I'm not talking about odds, I'm talking about luck"

Still, a >85% chance isn't all that lucky.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5033 by ringo, posted 07-05-2017 3:21 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 13889
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 5037 of 5179 (814284)
07-05-2017 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye
07-05-2017 3:59 PM


New Cat's Eye writes:

Still, a >85% chance isn't all that lucky.


Lucky the bullet wasn't an inch to the left, lucky the ambulance got there quickly, etc. When 100 people are shot the number of fatalities can vary a lot.

Your best odds for survival is if you're not shot at all. The fewer nuts on the street "defending" themselves, the better your chances are.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5036 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-05-2017 3:59 PM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

Dr Adequate
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Posts: 15972
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 5038 of 5179 (814292)
07-05-2017 11:53 PM


Responsible Gun Owner Of The Week
"I was showing the boys the gun and told them not to ever play with it because it can kill someone. Then she walked in the room and I pointed it at her and pulled the trigger, thinking it was empty."

http://nypost.com/...shot-daughter-while-teaching-gun-safety


Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 1590
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 5039 of 5179 (821099)
10-02-2017 12:28 PM


Las Vegas
Las Vegas Shooting Is Deadliest in Modern U.S. History

This must be fake news.....


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 7263
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 5040 of 5179 (821103)
10-02-2017 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 5039 by Tanypteryx
10-02-2017 12:28 PM


Re: Las Vegas
Tanypteryx writes:

This must be fake news.....

Sadly, it is very real. The gunman appeared to have committed suicide before police were able to apprehend him. His name was Stephen Paddock. It doesn't appear to be a case of Islamic terrorism, although that doesn't really make things any better.

NY Times has an article that provides a few more facts:
https://www.nytimes.com/.../10/02/us/las-vegas-shooting.html


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 Message 5039 by Tanypteryx, posted 10-02-2017 12:28 PM Tanypteryx has acknowledged this reply

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