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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 886 of 1311 (815265)
07-18-2017 6:02 AM
Reply to: Message 884 by CRR
07-18-2017 5:54 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Not really. I agree with Taq.
The theory of evolution describes the mechanisms involved in life changing over time.

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 887 of 1311 (815266)
07-18-2017 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 885 by CRR
07-18-2017 6:00 AM


Re: Black Budgie
Really? From The Economist?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 907 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 11:28 PM Pressie has replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 888 of 1311 (815268)
07-18-2017 6:08 AM
Reply to: Message 879 by Dredge
07-18-2017 12:58 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
The general theory of evolution says all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor.
Nope. I can't find any reference to "The general theory of evolution' except from a book written by someone in the sixties. That guy also had a 'Special theory of evolution' in the same book.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 889 of 1311 (815273)
07-18-2017 7:04 AM
Reply to: Message 868 by Taq
07-17-2017 3:11 PM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Dredge writes:
The purpose of using "evolved" is to promote their cult of evolution's theology that says,
I have always found it fascinating that creationists try so hard to make evolution look like a religion. Why is that?
It's like they think religion is a bad thing ...

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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 Message 868 by Taq, posted 07-17-2017 3:11 PM Taq has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 890 of 1311 (815274)
07-18-2017 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 889 by RAZD
07-18-2017 7:04 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Something I got from this forum, though I can't remember where and when, was:
Why is it that religious people use "religion" as a term of abuse? It seems paradoxical. If I wanted to insult creationism, I wouldn't do so by calling it science.
So true.

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RAZD
Member (Idle past 1425 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 891 of 1311 (815275)
07-18-2017 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 884 by CRR
07-18-2017 5:54 AM


consensus on multiple synonymic definitions
Technically I was wrong to say "evolution" couldn't be defined. I should have said that neither word nor theory have a consensus definition. Taq did give a definition but from memory nobody agreed with him. Perhaps, for the record, Taq would like to repeat his definitions for the word and the theory with links to the original posts.
No consensus on a single definition, but definitely a consensus of several different definitions saying essentially the same thing in different ways, ways that actually reinforce each other. When explaining words to people it is often useful to use synonyms to convey the particular meaning you want them to understand. Similarly defining the word evolution or the theory of evolution in similar but different ways is done to clarify meaning.
see several synonymic definitions:
as we have seen in other threads, both the word evolution, as used in biology, and the theory of evolution, ToE, can be defined in several similar ways with similar meanings. Like synonyms.
Your attempts to parse definitions to highlight the minor differences so that you can say there is no consensus is a failed tactic (and one typical of creationists that try to blur and hide the reality).
The failure to breed a particular bird coloration is not a failure of evolution -- mutations don't occur because you want them too.
Enjoy

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


Message 892 of 1311 (815276)
07-18-2017 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 879 by Dredge
07-18-2017 12:58 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
Forget Darwinism for a sec. The general theory of evolution says all life on earth evolved from a common ancestor.
I don't know the general theory of evolution. It's something foreign to me.
Dredge writes:
This is a theory of universal common ancestry, isn't it?
Not really. Some forms of life (difficult to define) found in and around the MOR's don't adhere to that general "rule" you set out.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 893 of 1311 (815278)
07-18-2017 8:43 AM
Reply to: Message 881 by Dredge
07-18-2017 1:12 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Religion requires faith, but shouldn't science - eg, evolution - be confined to evidence? It's interesting that you seem to think faith has a place in science.
That's, like, the exact opposite of what I was saying.
Faith has no place in science.
It is the Creationists who are the ones that say that evolution requires faith - as if requiring faith is some sort of denigration of the idea...
Which is hilarious because if that was true then they'd be poking fun at their own religious beliefs.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 881 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 1:12 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
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 Message 903 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 10:49 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Pressie
Member
Posts: 2103
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(2)
Message 894 of 1311 (815280)
07-18-2017 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 893 by New Cat's Eye
07-18-2017 8:43 AM


are doing ity by Re: Insecticide resistance
He-he-he
They automatically do it by calling scientific theories 'faith'. Not many of the average creationists on this forum seem intelligent enough to get why it's such a ridiculously stupid argument.
Edited by Pressie, : No reason given.

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2126 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 895 of 1311 (815284)
07-18-2017 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 880 by Dredge
07-18-2017 1:06 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
...but I like to refer to evolution science as "atheist theology", because it is the equivalent of theology to theists.
There is one big difference you are trying to gloss over.
Science is based on evidence, theology is the study of God(s) or of religion.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein
In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool
It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers
If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle
If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1
"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.
Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.

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jar
Member (Idle past 414 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 896 of 1311 (815285)
07-18-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 880 by Dredge
07-18-2017 1:06 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
Dredge writes:
I would call Darwinism a cult, rather than a religion; but I like to refer to evolution science as "atheist theology", because it is the equivalent of theology to theists.
Utter bullshit. Complete and utter stupid dishonest bullshit.
There is no equivalence between science and religion and to make such an assertion is simply a dishonest unsupported assertion.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 897 of 1311 (815286)
07-18-2017 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 878 by Dredge
07-18-2017 12:50 AM


Re: Interesting question...
Dredge writes:
Please explain how SIFTER makes use of the theory that all life shares a common ancestor.
"We present a statistical graphical model to infer specific molecular function for unannotated protein sequences using homology. Based on phylogenomic principles, SIFTER (Statistical Inference of Function Through Evolutionary Relationships) accurately predicts molecular function for members of a protein family given a reconciled phylogeny and available function annotations, even when the data are sparse or noisy. "
We present a statistical graphical model to infer specific molecular function for unannotated protein sequences using homology. Based on phylogenomic principles, SIFTER (Statistical Inference of Function Through Evolutionary Relationships) accurately predicts molecular function for members of a protein family given a reconciled phylogeny and available function annotations, even when the data are sparse or noisy. Our method produced specific and consistent molecular function predictions across 100 Pfam families in comparison to the Gene Ontology annotation database, BLAST, GOtcha, and Orthostrapper. We performed a more detailed exploration of functional predictions on the adenosine-5′-monophosphate/adenosine deaminase family and the lactate/malate dehydrogenase family, in the former case comparing the predictions against a gold standard set of published functional characterizations. Given function annotations for 3% of the proteins in the deaminase family, SIFTER achieves 96% accuracy in predicting molecular function for experimentally characterized proteins as reported in the literature. The accuracy of SIFTER on this dataset is a significant improvement over other currently available methods such as BLAST (75%), GeneQuiz (64%), GOtcha (89%), and Orthostrapper (11%). We also experimentally characterized the adenosine deaminase from Plasmodium falciparum, confirming SIFTER's prediction. The results illustrate the predictive power of exploiting a statistical model of function evolution in phylogenomic problems. A software implementation of SIFTER is available from the authors.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 10033
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 898 of 1311 (815287)
07-18-2017 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 884 by CRR
07-18-2017 5:54 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
CRR writes:
Technically I was wrong to say "evolution" couldn't be defined. I should have said that neither word nor theory have a consensus definition.
That is just utter bullshit, as others have mentioned. Just because people use different words to define evolution does not mean it lacks a definition.
Is this all you have, a really stupid semantic argument? Why give you anything when you will just lie about it?

This message is a reply to:
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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 899 of 1311 (815300)
07-18-2017 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 880 by Dredge
07-18-2017 1:06 AM


Re: Insecticide resistance
I would call Darwinism a cult, rather than a religion; but I like to refer to evolution science as "atheist theology", because it is the equivalent of theology to theists.
You're not coming off as honest... I pretty sure I've said this to you before.
I am a religious person. I practice theology.
I also accept evolution. That is very different from religious belief.
Evolution science is in no way equivalent, or even similar, to theology.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 880 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 1:06 AM Dredge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 905 by Dredge, posted 07-18-2017 11:17 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5946
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 900 of 1311 (815305)
07-18-2017 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 874 by Tanypteryx
07-17-2017 3:32 PM


Re: Insecticide resistance
I have always found it fascinating that creationists try so hard to make evolution look like a religion. Why is that?
And an atheist religion at that.
Along those same lines, their "atheistic" "evolution model" consists of all the ideas of origins that are not part of their "creation model", which is pure YEC. Hence their "evolution model" consists mainly of "most of the world's religions, ancient and modern" as Dr. Henry Morris of the ICR wrote to me. Although he did not say it, that would include all the Christian ideas that do not conform to all aspects of YEC.
So that "evolution model", consisting mainly of theistic ideas including Christian ideas, is "atheistic."
Which begs the question of how Dredge defines "atheistic". Since 1970 I have seen it applied many different ways, including anything that does not comply with their narrowly sectarian beliefs. I've come across fundamentalists who would probably consider Faith, a Calvinist, to be an atheist just because they consider her theology to be wrong.
Dredge needs to explain his understanding of what "atheistic" means. And how he defines evolution; I strongly suspect that his idea of evolution is that false "evolution model" in which it is built up as much more than just a scientific idea.
Of course, he repeatedly refuses to clarify those things.

This message is a reply to:
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