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Author Topic:   Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution.
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


(1)
Message 1057 of 1311 (815831)
07-24-2017 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1056 by RAZD
07-24-2017 10:24 PM


Re: Self replicating molecule
Nice fairy story, but that's all it is. The only molecule I saw named was Phosphoramidate DNA.
I found a paper by Szostak et al Synthesis of N3′-P5′-linked Phosphoramidate DNA by Nonenzymatic Template-Directed Primer Extension - PMC where in the discussion they say
quote:
Our observation of rapid, efficient nonenzymatic template-directed synthesis of short tracts of 3′-NP-DNA using activated 3′-aminonucleotides is an encouraging step toward the demonstration of a chemically self-replicating genetic polymer.
I.e it is a step towards but not an example of a self replicating molecule. Neither is it spontaneous polermization as the video claimed since it required a carefully constructed template. The paper didn't discuss the experimental set up but I suspect as in other cases a carefully controlled laboratory environment and carefully selected reagents is required to get favourable results.
Since I asked for your best example and that has failed I need look no further.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1056 by RAZD, posted 07-24-2017 10:24 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1064 by RAZD, posted 07-25-2017 11:15 AM CRR has replied
 Message 1065 by ringo, posted 07-25-2017 11:49 AM CRR has not replied
 Message 1067 by Taq, posted 07-25-2017 1:16 PM CRR has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1103 of 1311 (816021)
07-28-2017 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 1064 by RAZD
07-25-2017 11:15 AM


Re: Self replicating molecule
Artificial molecule evolves in the lab , 08 January 2009 by Ewen Callaway
"Joyce’s team created its own molecule from scratch, called R3C. It performed a single function: stitching two shorter RNA molecules together to create a clone of itself."
In other words they started with 3 carefully constructed RNA strings and achieved ligation of the two short strings in a carefully controlled laboratory environment. Nothing like these 3 RNA strands will appear naturally. There are a lot of problems with obtaining RNA by blind undirected chemistry, but it's amazing what can be achieved by an intelligent designer.
Self-replicating? Sort of. But not one that is likely to occur naturally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1064 by RAZD, posted 07-25-2017 11:15 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1113 by RAZD, posted 07-28-2017 7:19 AM CRR has replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1106 of 1311 (816024)
07-28-2017 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 1104 by Dredge
07-28-2017 1:38 AM


Re: Interesting question...
What is the difference between Porsche making a 'family' of sports cars and a nested hierarchy?
Or what about a nested of heirachy of vehicles in general? Would that prove that one evolved from another? (Beware Berra's Blunder)
Edited by CRR, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1104 by Dredge, posted 07-28-2017 1:38 AM Dredge has not replied

Replies to this message:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1124 of 1311 (816069)
07-28-2017 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1113 by RAZD
07-28-2017 7:19 AM


Re: Self replicating molecule
You had 2 chances to give your best example. That's it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1113 by RAZD, posted 07-28-2017 7:19 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1125 by JonF, posted 07-28-2017 7:48 PM CRR has not replied
 Message 1137 by RAZD, posted 07-29-2017 11:53 AM CRR has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1145 of 1311 (816163)
07-30-2017 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1141 by Rrhain
07-29-2017 5:10 PM


Re: self-replicating, auto-catalysing, homochiral molecules
A chiroselective peptide replicator (paywall)
The origin of biological homochirality (requires MyJSTOR account.)
A cross-chiral RNA polymerase ribozyme (paywall)
The eightfold path to non-enzymatic RNA replication (open access)
And Jack W Szostak sums it up pretty well. "Although several RNA polymerase ribozymes have been evolved in vitro, the creation of a true replicase remains a great experimental challenge." and "In this review, I discuss recent findings that suggest that chemically driven RNA replication may not be completely impossible."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1141 by Rrhain, posted 07-29-2017 5:10 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1148 of 1311 (816167)
07-31-2017 1:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1146 by Coyote
07-30-2017 11:08 PM


Re: New Theory Suggests Life Wasn't a Fluke
It will be interesting to see if the results of those computer simulations can be replicated in the laboratory. Although the article liberally uses "evolution" this is in the dictionary sense of change over time and is not biological evolution.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1146 by Coyote, posted 07-30-2017 11:08 PM Coyote has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1151 of 1311 (816170)
07-31-2017 1:37 AM
Reply to: Message 1147 by Dredge
07-31-2017 1:19 AM


Re: seven "assumptions"
Dredge is right Message 1147. The quote did not omit "several pages" as dwise1 claimed and did not substantially distort the meaning.
When Gould said "Transitional forms are generally lacking at the species level, but they are abundant between larger groups." I think he was desperately backpedaling after he let the cat out of the bag.
Edited by CRR, : link added

This message is a reply to:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1154 of 1311 (816173)
07-31-2017 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 1133 by PaulK
07-29-2017 3:22 AM


Re: Gould's observations do support Creationism
PaulK writes:
quote:
But what Gould observed DOES call the ToE into question just as Darwin said, and PE is really a laughable way to resolve it, whether Gould believed in it or not.
Please explain what is laughable about using an idea already widely accepted in evolutionary biology to explain a feature of the fossil record.
My impression is that the theory of Punk Eek had a brief moment in the light but is mostly not considered seriously today as a general explanation for the absence of transitional forms in the fossil record. e.g. Punctuated equilibrium - Wikipedia
Edited by CRR, : No reason given.
Edited by CRR, : tidy up

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1133 by PaulK, posted 07-29-2017 3:22 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
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CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


(1)
Message 1212 of 1311 (816406)
08-04-2017 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 1211 by Dredge
08-04-2017 3:26 AM


99 990 000
` 10 000
Remove 4 zeros from each line, 9999/1=9999
You can check it on a calculator.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1211 by Dredge, posted 08-04-2017 3:26 AM Dredge has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1217 of 1311 (816417)
08-04-2017 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 1114 by Percy
07-28-2017 8:45 AM


Percy writes:
Except that Michael Ruse objects to being quote-mined like this.
Except that I read your link and while the quote is an extract from the 5 pages it is representative of what Ruse said, and as such is not quote mining. Ruse's quotes from Stephen J Gould continue to reinforce the theme that many evolutionists give religious overtones to the theory of evolution
quote:
The language of Stephen Jay Gould is hardly more tempered. We learn that evolution "liberates the human spirit," that for sheer excitement evolution "beats any myth of human origins by light years," and that we should "praise this evolutionary nexus -- a far more stately mansion for the human soul than any pretty or parochial comfort ever conjured by our swollen neurology to obscure the source of physical being."
Mr. Gould ultimately rejects traditional readings of evolution for a more inspiring, liberating version: "We must assume that consciousness would not have evolved on our planet if a cosmic catastrophe had not claimed the dinosaurs as victims. In an entirely literal sense, we owe our existence, as large and reasoning mammals, to our lucky stars." If this is not to rival traditional Judaeo-Christian teaching -- with its central belief that we humans are not just random happenstances, but a major reason why God created heaven and earth -- I do not know what is.
Ruse did qualify it toward the end by saying
quote:
There is no need to make a religion of evolution. On its own merits, evolution as science is just that -- good, tough, forward-looking science, which should be taught as a matter of course to all children, regardless of creed.
Ruse wrote what he wrote. The quote is fair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1114 by Percy, posted 07-28-2017 8:45 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1223 by JonF, posted 08-04-2017 9:33 AM CRR has not replied
 Message 1245 by Percy, posted 08-05-2017 7:47 AM CRR has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1218 of 1311 (816419)
08-04-2017 9:01 AM
Reply to: Message 1215 by herebedragons
08-04-2017 8:41 AM


Miracles
There is no reason why a person who accepts evolutionary theory as the best explanation of how life on earth came to be so diverse can't also believe in miracles.
Do you believe in miracles?
Which ones?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1215 by herebedragons, posted 08-04-2017 8:41 AM herebedragons has not replied

  
CRR
Member (Idle past 2242 days)
Posts: 579
From: Australia
Joined: 10-19-2016


Message 1308 of 1311 (816609)
08-08-2017 1:49 AM


"Nothing in biology makes sense except in the light of evolution." was the title of an article by Theodosius Dobzhansky published in The American Biology Teacher, Vol. 35, No. 3
As I said in Message 5 it is a hyperbolic title to grab attention. Much in biology makes sense without evolution.
Just in time: A new article in EN explains why Dobzhansky’s phrase is unequivocally false.
Edited by CRR, : Just in time added

  
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