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Author Topic:   Monsanto - Bad Food, Good Capitalism
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 31 of 46 (816721)
08-09-2017 11:03 PM


Typical these days..
Monsanto at it again. This time they've colluded with an 'independent' investigation and had changes made to the final report.
Much of Europe has banned GMOs, am I to believe this is for no reason? With so much blatant corruption and evidence of Roundups toxicity, is it only the profit motive preventing the US from following suit?
Recently it was announced that western men's sperm counts have drastically decreased over the last 50 years, this correlates with increasing use of roundup ready crops.
It is notable that the steep decline in testosterone levels began just after the introduction of genetically modified (GM) crops in 1994 with concomitant increase in glyphosate herbicides use on glyphosate tolerant GM crops. A comprehensive review article has blamed glyphosate for most of the diseases and conditions associated with a Western diet including infertility [4], although the precise mode of action, at least in the case of infertility, remains unclear.
Roundup more damaging than glyphosate
There is already evidence that glyphosate is an endocrine disrupting chemical (see later), but the extent of the problem is far greater than it appears. Different glyphosate formulations vary in toxicity, mainly because some of them contain adjuvants that are either toxic by themselves, or else exert synergistic effects with glyphosate. It has long been known that Monsanto’s formulation Roundup, the most widely used glyphosate herbicide, is far more damaging than glyphosate itself (reviewed in [5] Ban GMOs Now, I-SIS special report).
Quote from this link.

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 08-10-2017 1:14 AM Riggamortis has replied
 Message 34 by caffeine, posted 08-11-2017 8:38 AM Riggamortis has replied
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:10 PM Riggamortis has replied
 Message 37 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 3:10 PM Riggamortis has replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 33 of 46 (816730)
08-10-2017 5:09 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by NoNukes
08-10-2017 1:14 AM


Re: Typical these days..
Yeah, to clarify, I don't see GMOs as inherently bad. I'm looking forward to lab grown steak too. Engineering crops to withstand more pesticides, however, seems like a terrible idea before you even get to the science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by NoNukes, posted 08-10-2017 1:14 AM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 41 of 46 (816834)
08-11-2017 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by caffeine
08-11-2017 8:38 AM


Re: Typical these days..
I clarified in my response to NN that my concern primarily regards roundup resistance as opposed to GM in general. That out of the way.
But if the reason in question is 'this would be popular with voters' that doesn't tell us much about the scientific merits of the case.
Ahh the old dumb voter dismissal, good one. Pretty hollow since you didn't actually tell me much about the scientific merits of the case either. A quick look at some of the literature does raise concerns, This paper takes a look at the benefits and risks of GMOs.
Unknown effects on human health: A recent articlepublished in Lancet examined the effects of GM potatoes on the digestive tract in rats [23, 24]. Moreover, the gene introduced into the potatoes was a snowdrop flowerlectin, a substance known to be toxic to mammals.
Why GM a known toxic substance into potatoes?
Caffeine writes:
Note the above only applies to the cultivation of GM crops. People eat food made from GM crops everywhere in Europe. If the real concern of those banning GM crop production is that consuming GM foods is bad for health, then they're idiots, since this is not being prevented.
In the EU, if a food contains or consists of genetically modified organisms (GMOs), or contains ingredients produced from GMOs, this must be indicated on the label.
From food.gov.uk. So all GMOs to a certain extent require labelling in the EU. A member state who bans local production of GMOs ensures access to local non-GMO products, further, due to labelling laws everyone has the ability to make the choice. You're basically calling them idiots for not being authoritarian enough, ironically if you ask me.
Caff writes:
There is no legitimate reason to single out one specific in the absence of any causal mechanism.
Correct, in case you hadn't noticed we're examining a potential causal mechanism right now. Forgive me if I am mistaken but aren't you in biochemistry or something? Perhaps you could use your knowledge to inform an ignorant pleb as to why exactly he shouldn't have any concern. I'm not quoting conspiracy websites here but genuine science as best I can tell, I'll need more than your word to counter the concerns raised by other scientists mate.
In America, there has been a substantial age-independent decline in testosterone that does not appear attributable to observed changes in explanatory factors including health status and lifestyle characteristics such as smoking and obesity. The estimated declines were larger than the cross sectional declines typically associated with age, as shown in Figure 1.
Science in Society Archive
There are studies which directly link Roundup to lower testosterone levels in other mammals. There are studies showing the direct impact of Roundup on human cells including reproductive cells. I concede that it is narrow minded to blame one thing entirely. It is dishonest to deny the real concern for causality in this case, however. Diets and lifestyles vary greatly among the population at any given time, Roundup use on staple crops impacts pretty much everyone regardless of their individual choices. It is therefore a more viable causal candidate for a trend which spans many lifestyle factors and age groups.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by caffeine, posted 08-11-2017 8:38 AM caffeine has replied

Replies to this message:
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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 42 of 46 (816836)
08-11-2017 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by New Cat's Eye
08-11-2017 12:10 PM


Re: Typical these days..
This study is a more comprehensive replication of the "safety assurance study"
Here's is an image of the organs for visual comparison.
A picture is worth a thousand words and that picture is pretty damning if you ask me.
quote:
Ultrastructure of hepatocytes in male rats from groups presenting thegreatest degree of liver pathology. (1) Typical control rat hepatocyte(bar 2 μm except in 4). (2) Effects with Roundup at the lowestdose. Glycogen (G) is dispersed in the cytoplasm. L, lipid droplet; N, nucleus;R, rough endoplasmic reticulum. (3) Details of treatment effects with22% dietary GMO (bar 1 μm). a, cluster of residual bodies (asterisks); b,mitochondria show many enlarged cristae (arrows). (4) Hepatocytes ofanimal fed GM maize (GMO) at 22% of total diet. Large lakes of glycogen occurin the cytoplasm. M, mitochondria.
The WHO has declared glyphosate a 'probable human carcinogen' and here's a quote on deformed piglets.
Human epidemiological [23, 29—31] and domesticated animal studies [32, 33] suggest associations between exposures to GBHs and adverse health outcomes. For example, congenital malformations have been reported in young pigs fed GBH residues-contaminated soybeans [32]. This suggests that GBHs may be at least a contributing factor to similar birth defects observed in human populations living in and near farming regions with substantial land area planted to GBH-tolerant GE crop cultivars [23, 34].
And one from the actual piglet study.
In spring of last year a Danish pig farmer brought 38 live borne but malformed one-day-old piglets into our laboratory because of extraordinary high percentages of malformations in piglets. It was reported an assumption about the possible causes of this incident. It was noticed that the rate of malformations increased to one out of 260 born piglets if sow feeds contain 0.87-1.13 ppm glyphosate (N-phosphonomethylglycine) in the first 40 days of pregnancy. In case of 0.25 ppm glyphosate in sow feeds one of 1432 piglets was malformed.
Edited by Riggamortis, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by New Cat's Eye, posted 08-11-2017 12:10 PM New Cat's Eye has replied

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Riggamortis
Member (Idle past 2416 days)
Posts: 167
From: Australia
Joined: 08-15-2016


Message 43 of 46 (816840)
08-11-2017 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Taq
08-11-2017 3:10 PM


Re: Typical these days..
So in short, because some authority in the home of crony capitalism has classified an extremely lucrative product as safe, anyone who questions it is the equivalent of an anti-vaxxer? Pathetic.
Here is a direct example of creationist 101 methods being used in the search to prove GMOs safe.
While there are currently no standardized methods to evaluate the safety of GM foods, attempts towards harmonization are on the way. More scientific effort is necessary in order to build confidence in the evaluation and acceptance of GM foods.
The analogy fits like a glove. To paraphrase "While we currently cannot really vouch for their safety due to the lack of standardised methods, we already know that they are safe and more effort is required to prove it."
You are welcome to ignore monsantos interference in the science and reporting on GMOs and all the other evidence against Roundup if you wish. You are further free to look down your nose at me for asking questions. Please do try to form an actual argument though, criticising the shallow arguments of arrogant pricks is too easy.
We also have the chief editor of the lancet making statements like this;
The case against science is straightforward: much of the scientific literature, perhaps half, may simply be untrue. Afflicted by studies with small sample sizes, tiny effects, invalid exploratory analyses, and flagrant conflicts of interest, together with an obsession for pursuing fashionable trends of dubious importance, science has taken a turn towards darkness. As one participant put it, poor methods get results. The Academy of Medical Sciences, Medical Research Council, and Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council have now put their reputational weight behind an investigation into these questionable research practices.
I'll be damned if I'll stop questioning things and I definitely won't allow naive, hollow, condescending points of view to go unchallenged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Taq, posted 08-11-2017 3:10 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
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