Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 65 (9162 total)
5 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,815 Year: 3,072/9,624 Month: 917/1,588 Week: 100/223 Day: 11/17 Hour: 0/7


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What do you think of the evidence for psychic abilities?
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 7 of 37 (816874)
08-12-2017 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by LamarkNewAge
08-11-2017 12:01 PM


maybe sort of
A few years ago I read a pastor's view of psychic ability as one of the faculties or powers our original parents had, that was lost at the Fall but may still appear in some people sporadically or vaguely, sometimes in Christians since religious experience seems to bring it out. For this reason some pagan religious practices are aimed at developing it. But he says it shouldn't be cultivated because it's deceptive and subject to fraud. Also no doubt easily influenced by Satan, who is the "prince of this world" since the Fall. It would be hard to get evidence of such an unpredictable thing.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-11-2017 12:01 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 11 of 37 (816883)
08-12-2017 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Dogmafood
08-12-2017 3:41 PM


Obviously you're a gullible person trying to get a mountain of cash out of Porosity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Dogmafood, posted 08-12-2017 3:41 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Dogmafood, posted 08-12-2017 9:39 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 13 of 37 (816911)
08-13-2017 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dogmafood
08-12-2017 9:39 PM


Well I've had so much experience of the supernatural I'm beyond doubting it but I understand the skepticism since the evidence is hard to come by and pretty spotty except for those who've had such personal experiences. But the accusation of making money off them always gets my goat.
There are lots of supernatural claims that could be discussed but this thread is limited to psychic powers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Dogmafood, posted 08-12-2017 9:39 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Dogmafood, posted 08-14-2017 6:25 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 17 of 37 (817002)
08-14-2017 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Diomedes
08-14-2017 2:49 PM


I have the impression that nothing has been positively proved against such claims either though, correct me if I'm wrong. All Randi can do is show that he can fake the same thing a person claimed happened, right? That doesn't prove that the person who claimed it faked it. Or you may be able to come up with a plausible alternative explanation. But that's not proof either.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Diomedes, posted 08-14-2017 2:49 PM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Taq, posted 08-14-2017 3:46 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 19 by Tangle, posted 08-14-2017 5:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 21 of 37 (817013)
08-14-2017 6:41 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Dogmafood
08-14-2017 6:25 PM


Does investigation actually "reveal some natural process at work," or is it just that if the investigator can dream up a plausible naturalistic explanation it's accepted without actual evidence? Not to say that there isn't enough fraud in this arena to justify such dismissal in many cases, but this way of approaching such unpredictable phenomena isn't justifiable in itself.
I don't know why anybody would expect psychic phenomena to be produceable on demand, but since it isn't, that is made an excuse to dismiss the whole idea.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Dogmafood, posted 08-14-2017 6:25 PM Dogmafood has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Dogmafood, posted 08-14-2017 8:25 PM Faith has replied
 Message 26 by Taq, posted 08-15-2017 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 23 of 37 (817028)
08-15-2017 2:46 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Dogmafood
08-14-2017 8:25 PM


I don't think the investigations do very often "reveal truth" as you say, I think it's as I put it, a plausible naturalistic explanation is sometimes all you get but that's enough for many.
agree that that is not a reasonable expectation and that some forces are sporadic. My question however, remains. Why is the whole idea more plausible than the employment of natural forces?
If you actually do accept the phenomena called psychic, that is, the knowing of something you couldn't know by normal means, just by definition I don't see how you could explain it naturalistically. (Strictly speaking I don't think psychic knowledge is "supernatural" however, if it exists it would be a function of the mind and therefore natural. But it would still involve knowing something in a direct way that we don't normally experience.)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Dogmafood, posted 08-14-2017 8:25 PM Dogmafood has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Diomedes, posted 08-15-2017 9:28 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 25 of 37 (817039)
08-15-2017 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Diomedes
08-15-2017 9:28 AM


Nobody should make such claims; I don't know why they do. They can only have such experiences sporadically it seems to me, there isn't anything predictable about them so there isn't anything testable about them. But maybe something else is going on here I need to think about.
But I've accepted the pastor's (Watchman Nee) view of psychic ability as something left over in some of us since the Fall, sometimes stirred up by spiritual experience, so I think of it as a mere shadow of what it must originally have been and therefore unreliable in our present condition. He himself as a new Christian claimed to know what people were thinking and at first assumed it was a gift from God until he came to realize it wasn't and then was determined to put such thoughts out of his mind. He wrote a book about it warning Christians not to mistake it for the work of the Holy Spirit. He called it "soul power."
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Diomedes, posted 08-15-2017 9:28 AM Diomedes has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Taq, posted 08-15-2017 5:35 PM Faith has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024