Calvinism and Arminianism remix

And then their son Cain killed their other son. Seems the parents were ineffective at teaching responsibility and love.

Perhaps God, being a wise teacher, foreknowingly modeled bad behavior knowing that humans with a conscience would call Him out on it. Just as he expects us to do to each other. Seems Cain didnt listen.

Personally, I don't believe that God foreknowingly created evil, though I DO believe that God allowed it and the consequences rippling out from it.You and I have discussed this before. Allowing humans to choose evil is expected if we are to learn anything after leaving the nest. Eliminating all possibility of evil wont strengthen people in the long run.

OK...so say we were allowed to form our own legal codes and we used them to successfully try and convict God. All He is gonna say is for us to go and do likewise to each other. In other words, He will take the conviction and the sentence...and won't deprive us of our right to judge and convict.

The question is, are we working our way towards it and is this discipline necessary?

Because we chose it. He only allowed it to give us a choice. You seem intent on suing Him for the consequences of what we chose.

I don't believe we have enough information with which to judge Him and/or declaring what He, in fact, is or is not.

Works for me! Lets run with that.... Yes. Perhaps some think it a sin to question Him, but I believe He not only allows it but encourages it.

So we take our kids to the zoo. The Lions have a place to stay, and there is a high wall around their lair, as well as a sign warning people to stay off of the wall. One kid climbs up on the wall and wants to take a selfie with the lions behind him. He loses his balance and falls down into the pit. After being cornered, the lion drags him back inside the lair and eats him. Is the zoo responsible for the consequences?What alternatives would the legal system insist that the zoo provide?

Would you go so far as to say that since God allowed Lucifer to become Satan...in essence allowing evil to become actualized...that Satan himself could be an attractive nuisance?Given that, God provided Jesus Christ as an antidote to the nuisance that was allowed solely to provide a choice...first for the fallen angel and later for humanity.Not that I don't think the whole plan was unnecessarily complicated. But what do I know? Ask any human to come up with a better plan, and dollars will get you doughnuts that other complications will arise because of their plan.One example that I usually give is the idea that if all suffering were removed, there would be no method in which to build character and strengthen resolve.We would simply be a species of pampered and favored couch potatoes.

Evolution will eventually weed them out. Trump's base is a prime example.

You have stated this for years and it has never failed to annoy me and challenge my preconceptions! I even googled the statement and found two other sources explaining it similar to how you did. I have a hard time with the idea that God would lie, would need to lie, and if so, why would He lie? As for the serpent allegedly telling the truth, I see this as an analogy of how we ourselves...being our own inner stubborn selves, rationalize disobedience to God and/or to others. In tentative conclusion, I can only imagine God lying for the purpose of providing a teachable moment in the text.No other explanation would make any sense.

I will admit that the Problem Of Evil is the number one argument brought up by inquiring minds. Peter Kreeft explains his philosophy quite well at my link, by the way.

Because the audience here at EvC thinks that the Fall is a fairy tale. You won't convince them...even with CAPITAL LETTERS.

The answer which I usually give will prove your point that many of us do not tow the party line regarding beliefs.In short, I believe that God created the possibility of evil yet never directly created an evil Being. The only reason that God created the possibility of evil was that it was only in this way that true choice could be offered to anyone or any created thing. Were it not this way, Lucifer would not have even been given the power to rebel.So yes, I accept some of the dogma.I also listen to alternate views.Lets take your view, Tangle. There is no God, no heaven, and no devil or any other angels...both fallen and goodly. The world is brutal and seemingly unfair and callous because...well...because cosmological and biological evolution works that way. We are survivors for now, but there are no guarantees that humanity is favored in any way, shape, or form. Is that close to your view?