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Author Topic:   Is it "Politically Correct"...
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 128 of 195 (817476)
08-17-2017 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:26 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
It is beyond absurd to attribute any sort of pro-white supremacy to David Horowitz.
I can't tell how much BLM or Antifa presence might have been at the weekend rallies but as Breitbart reports they have certainly been a presence at other similar rallies over the last few months.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:26 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:34 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 130 of 195 (817480)
08-17-2017 5:37 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:34 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
You are one of the most underhanded debaters I've ever encountered.
I'm saying Black Lives Matter is violent and racist and have committed murders. They were also formed on refusing to recognize that it was criminal behavior that provoked the cops they now want to kill for doing their duty. I'm not even sure they have a single justified complaint. They are irrationally racist and violent and they are pawns of the Left.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:34 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:42 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 132 of 195 (817484)
08-17-2017 5:47 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:42 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
The black men were charging at the cops, provoking them, trying to take away their weapon, or behaving in a way that scared the cop; in a few of the cases the cops were responding to their criminal activity. In some cases the cop probably acted rashly, but you can't say they weren't provoked. I can't think of ONE case where this is not true. Can you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 5:42 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 6:07 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 133 of 195 (817488)
08-17-2017 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Taq
08-17-2017 5:42 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
A couple of very sad cases:
Garner selling cigarettes. Cops overreacted under the direction of a BLACK supervisor, and Garner died by accident due to the way they held him down.
The boy in the park with the toy gun. The cops thought it was real, overreacted.; Really sad case.
The guy who bolted during a routine stop was outright murdered by the cop, and that was caught on video. But the cop has been prosecuted so you can't say that's a case of cops getting away with murder.
Guy in handcuffs who died in the back of a police car from being knocked around since he wasn't restrained. Severe negligence on the part of the BLACK driver. But that case too has been prosecuted,l hasn't it?
Find me ONE case where an innocent black man was killed for no reason at all and the cop got awy free.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 4:17 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 135 of 195 (817492)
08-17-2017 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Taq
08-17-2017 6:07 PM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
That is a very recent case. I'm addressing the cases that supposedly are the reason for BLM. That recent case is another case of a cop rashly overreacting, to a really extreme degree, but I don't think you can call for murdering all coops on the basis of that kind of overreaction, which could only get worse with that kind of "solution" anyway.
As for only having the word of the cop, most of the cases I've referred to I've seen on video, and in the case of Michael Brown and Trayvon Martin I've read the evidence against them and it is convincing that they acted provocatively.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Taq, posted 08-17-2017 6:07 PM Taq has replied

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 Message 147 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 11:07 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 139 of 195 (817547)
08-18-2017 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by PaulK
08-18-2017 4:17 AM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Are you arguing that accidental deaths are entirely acceptable?
Don't be ricdiculous, of course not. I'm arguing that they don't show racist intentions and don't deserve wholesale cop murder in retaliation.
Isn't it reasonable to argue that more should be done to try to prevent such deaths ?
Sure, but in your opinion is taking to the streets and burning down buildings and attacking people and murdering cops doing more to prevent such deaths?
And if a murdering cop was only caught because his actions were recorded in video how do you know that there aren't other cases where such evidence wasn't available ?
Isn't it reasonable to suppose that there are at least some ? And that the murdering cops lied about what happened - as Michael Slager did ?
Think about it. It's pretty hard for a cop to get away free if there is solid evidence of murder (although it sadly seems that getting convictions can be hard even when there is good evidence Judge Declares Mistrial ).
The mere fact that a cop was caught murdering a man and lying about it - and came worryingly close to getting away with it makes it virtually certain that there are other cases where the cop was not caught.
There no doubt have been other such incidents, but BLM is BASED ON the ones I've referred to, ones where there is NO justification whatever that I can see, involving an absolute denial of black criminality and black provocation of the cops. And most of those were due to cops overreacting from fear, so I would assume there would be many more of those unrecorded as well. And how are you going to rectify that problem, which is no doubt racist in the sense that the cops expect more violence from blacks?
Why now when there IS better evidence is a murdering destructive rampage considered justifiable? Now when presumably it should be easier to make the case you want to see made?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 4:17 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 9:13 AM Faith has replied
 Message 141 by JonF, posted 08-18-2017 9:26 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 148 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 11:09 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 142 of 195 (817555)
08-18-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by PaulK
08-18-2017 9:13 AM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Look, you've been implying that BLM's tactics are fine with you up until this post when you've decided to upbraid me for supposing that. I haven't seen you decrying their violence until now. Genomicus for one has outright defended it so I know some on the Left do that.
There was one outright murder by a cop in this collection of incidents, Slager. And it was prosecuted.
There were two cases of cops being provoked: Michael Brown who was involved in a petty crime the officer was responding to, who then attacked the officer; and Trayvon Martin who threatened whatshisname, not a cop exactly but in a position of authority.
There was one accidental death: Garner
There was one death from extreme negligence: forget his name the guy who died from injuries caused by being tossed around in the cop car, and it was prosecuted. If you want to put Garner in this category, fine with me. Both were caused by black officers so you can't call it racist.
Then there are the deaths as a result of cops' fearfulness. Tamir Rice was a very sad case of a kid waving around a toy gun and the cops thinking it was real. On the surveillance video you see them cowering behind their car, or one of them I forget. The recent case of the man shot in his car who had told the officer he had a gun in the car is another sad case. You can hear the fear in the cop's voice on the video. I thought there were more of this kind of incident but I guess there were only these two.
I am certainly in favor of doing something to avoid such incidents. How about a program of educating the black community not to threaten cops, not to resist arrest, keep your hands visible, like on the steering wheel, and don't go waving around toy guns? I don't see what the cops themselves could have done differently in any of those situations. Do you?
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 9:13 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 9:59 AM Faith has replied
 Message 153 by Modulous, posted 08-18-2017 7:18 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 144 of 195 (817564)
08-18-2017 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by PaulK
08-18-2017 9:59 AM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
I don't remember all that clearly I admit but I had the impression that there was both witness evidence and some kind of physical evidence that Trayvon Martin acted in a threatening manner. But maybe I'm confusing him with Michael Brown.
As for "teaching officers to be less trigger happy" the problem is that if the cop is scared, which I agree is hard to justify in the case of the shooting of the guy in his car, how do you teach a cop not to be fearful? The guy was cooperative by the sound of his voice and I would think the cop could tell that too, but apparently he moved his hand out of sight and that is what scared the cop. Keeping your hands visible is the first rule of how not to threaten someone if you possess a gun. My guess is you CAN'T teach cops out of that fearfulness, they've had too many experiences of having good reason to be fearful; but basic rules of how not to be threatening should be teachable.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 9:59 AM PaulK has replied

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 Message 146 by PaulK, posted 08-18-2017 10:39 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 151 of 195 (817621)
08-18-2017 4:50 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Taq
08-18-2017 11:09 AM


Re: I guess fairness isn't going to happen on such subjects
Isn't possible to denounce both according to you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Taq, posted 08-18-2017 11:09 AM Taq has replied

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 Message 193 by Taq, posted 08-23-2017 12:42 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 154 of 195 (817641)
08-18-2017 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Modulous
08-18-2017 7:18 PM


That's meaningless, Mod, without knowing the circumstances in each case. Five of the seven examples I gave were justifiable or accidental or the result of fear on the cop's part, one of the remaining two was criminal negligence, the other was outright murder. Mere numbers don't tell us much.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Modulous, posted 08-18-2017 7:18 PM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Modulous, posted 08-18-2017 9:08 PM Faith has replied
 Message 156 by JonF, posted 08-19-2017 8:57 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 157 of 195 (817665)
08-19-2017 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by JonF
08-19-2017 8:57 AM


I wasn't specifically addressing the question of BLM violence, just their utter lack of justification for their whole project, even just demonstrating against the cops, in the examples they themselves point to as their justification.
As for violence, NCE has posted some evidence of their shouting about killing cops. That's on the same level as the white supremacists shouting about the evil Jews. As for actual violence and murders I'll have to dig that up.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by JonF, posted 08-19-2017 8:57 AM JonF has replied

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 Message 159 by JonF, posted 08-19-2017 9:23 AM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 158 of 195 (817666)
08-19-2017 9:13 AM
Reply to: Message 155 by Modulous
08-18-2017 9:08 PM


It's usually not fair to compare two such entirely different social situations as the UK and the US.

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 Message 155 by Modulous, posted 08-18-2017 9:08 PM Modulous has replied

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 Message 160 by Modulous, posted 08-19-2017 12:51 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 161 of 195 (817739)
08-19-2017 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Modulous
08-19-2017 12:51 PM


Sounds good to me, hope the methods spread. Wonder why such reasonable tactics haven't already become universal.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 162 of 195 (817763)
08-19-2017 10:36 PM


Boston
Something called a "free speech rally" in Boston by Trump supporters was interrupted by the usual mob of crazed Leftists falsely calling it racist. BLM was there, Antifa was there, throwing stuff including urine, and free speech was squelched, not racist speech because as far as I've been able to find out it wasn't white supremacists, it was just some Trump supporters who are not racist. If that is the case then it is just the latest in Leftist fascist tyranny by today's version of the brownshirts who are the real racists these days. But as I say it's hard to find out what it was really all about. The MSM didn't even mention the involvement of BLM and Antifa, I found that at You Tube, but haven't listened to any of it yet. Who organized the rally for what purpose I haven't yet found out except that it is called a Trump rally.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 163 of 195 (817771)
08-20-2017 6:26 AM


Laguna Beach
I wouldn't have known about this except I have a relative who lives there and mentioned it in an email. According to her, protestors are being bussed in to Laguna Beach. Anti-"racist" protestors apparently, I guess to squelch another moment of free speech planned for tomorrow. Then I found a news story about it. So again we've got protestors against, not white supremacists, in this case just Americans who want to call attention to crimes committed by illegal aliens. Can't do that, it's "racist." Can't rule our own borders, that's "racist." And they apparently get paid to go wherever anyone thinks otherwise and prevent them from saying so.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 165 by JonF, posted 08-20-2017 9:07 AM Faith has replied
 Message 185 by caffeine, posted 08-21-2017 1:41 PM Faith has replied

  
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